A thread to talk about why football index might be a bad idea



  • I love how positive the forum threads are in general and I appreciate it's in all our interests to portray Football Index as an ever growing source of money but I am creating this thread to solely talk about the risks involved.

    I have now invested several thousand pounds and have found myself fighting the urge to invest more, as the risks of investing are not clear. I have racked my head trying to uncover ways in which I may lose a sizeable chunk of my money. Let's be clear, I am not talking about "Neymar breaking his leg" and the such, I am talking about the bigger picture.

    What could end football index as a whole, and is there a significant risk that this may occur over the coming months or years?

    The three main theories I can muster up are;

    1. Football Index collapses due to dividend pay outs.

    These days most people that invest significant amounts of money have the foresight to invest in the big media buzz players, simply because they provide a safe return. I worry that if these players continue to grow and end up holding a huge proportion of customer investment then FI may run into a cash flow problem with dividends.
    If this were to happen then FI would be forced to reduce media dividends and that could result in a crash of player values (or the bubble finally bursting).

    The truth is we don't know anything about the profits of FI as a company, which as an investor is very unusual. If you were to look up stocks, for example in Apple, there is information about every aspect of that company from quarterly profits to price/earn ratio etc. FI doesn't even provide a graph to show its history of FOOTIE growth and this lack of information concerns me that if the bubble were about to burst, none of us would know until it were too late.

    1. Sued by a company or closed down by the government.

    Another risk is FI could have its gambling licence removed or sued by another larger company as it enters uncharted territory with its mix of investing + gambling idea.

    1. Small fish in a big pond.

    One of the big boys such as William Hill or Paddy Power etc. could see that FI is turning a profit and decide to release their own version of FI. These companies have millions of customers visiting their sites annually and they could quickly make FI irrelevant.
    (Although I believe if this were to occur, those of us following FI closely would have sufficient time to withdraw our money and switch platform before losing significant amounts).

    I want to reiterate that I love FI and do not want any of the above to occur but it would be foolish to not consider the risks. What are your thoughts? Are there any other ways in which FI comes crashing down?

    PS. If any of the mods are to read this it would be great to have your insight into these matters and hopefully instil some faith in our investments.



  • While researching fi I stumbled across there funding page they are lookin for 800k for 15.1% but the page also shows all data from cash flow, cash reserves, incomes users etc. Also as the index grows it would be better business to buy rather than copy, but I do have similar worries with dividends because its only takes a simple calculation to work out a players value and 80% are honesty worth nothing they only have value due to other Fools buying players that will never show any roi.



  • It very much falls into the realms of 'invest only what you are prepared to lose'.

    The main issue for me is that there is no such thing as free money. For people to make money (including the devs) someone has to lose it - the index needs losers. With bookmakers, I think its more throwaway with people OK about losing then putting a bet on next week. With Football Index, I'm not sure that losers will happy to put money in next week as it is seen as more of an investment. People seem to be making money out of people doing stupid things and I'm not sure people will keep on doing stupid things forever.



  • I would also be supprised if there are many people at All who who have made and actual profit in cash withdrawal not virtual as its to tempting to reinvest.



  • @James

    Great thread James and the points your making I have took up with Adam himself at the traders meet. 1. The dividends are the main worry in effect Neymar and pogba! I think my worry is a asset strip sanario where the original members invest in the big names at low prices intentionally to cream dividends the IPO adds fuel to keep cash flow burning I think the World Cup and next season start will all be ok around Xmas next year when 3 years are up for original investors is time the system can lapse

    however please realise 3 years accounts would make maximum resale value. There’s no copywrite on FI however FI is a threat to coral etc has it takes money out the marketplace I can see Adam Cole being offered to be bought out by a bookmaker Who I feel instead of promote the index they would intergrate into there site... and copywrite the platform to close out other bookies a pretty smart move!!!!!

    someone like Ladbrokes could do a promo bet £100 in week and get £5 in Ladbroke index shares (free bet)! It be really good idea to get a edge on the freebet market could you imagine betting £200 in bookies on weekend coupons and getting a free Neymar when you’d not heard of FI they could corner the market due to FI addiction.

    Main worry is where dividends come from my take is this 20p comes out all shares accross the board meaning for platform to clause it take 80% of all capitals withdrawn. There’s also another thiory (rumour) I’ve heard that FI broker 70% of all shares which would make sence if a IPO comes in at £1 if they buy themselfs and broker 70% it means shares can’t drop more than 30% they also do a bonus system that ties money up... the money in FI is nothing to larger operators and sell on at 100,000,000 plus must be Adams goal personally like the football teams do he needs to find a invester in Far East. If Adam gets another year out this and sells up and uses the money to open a competitor it keeps consumer confidence and he wins twice if FI fails now it’s not achieved full potential

    That’s my take...

    I can’t see government sueing being realistic. I think many people have a soft spot for FI and has such I think there is honour amongst traders at moment to reinvest. I’ll only withdrew money I’ve put in not profit had that’s portfollo money no matter what I win



  • To be honest i can't see FI being a threat to William Hill/Paddy Power/Ladbrokes....there is no point in them creating a platform similar to FI when they are happy to watch people bet on 5/1, 6/1, 7/1 odds that are high risk on their own, the bookies already make massive profits within a couple of days, for example....Man City not winning against Wigan or even Barcelona not winning against Chelsea !!



  • @NewUser71518

    I think your right on top of this if a larger operater buys FI they will gain a larger following as at the same time re-vamp the danish buzz word Naymar-Pogba friendly reward concept to spread investments market wide



  • Apple is a listed company, so has to provide that info. FI doesn't have too but would have to if they made the FTSE 350 for example. They've raised money through Seedrs. Like any "stock market" the FI index needs new money to grow.

    FOOTIE growth is clear and constant at the moment

    Why would the government get involved?!

    Most ideas/company models can be copied.

    Money can be made from price rises aswell as dividend ratios etc. That's standard, just look at some tech company ratios or cryptocurrencies etc.

    The market needs buyers and sellers. There will of course be winners and losers.

    The three year thing makes sense but does create selling and buying, so a % each time for FI & they do seem to manage volatility well

    Why would the management want FI to fail?!



  • @but-then-again said in A thread to talk about why football index might be a bad idea:

    Apple is a listed company, so has to provide that info. FI doesn't have too but would have to if they made the FTSE 350 for example. They've raised money through Seedrs. Like any "stock market" the FI index needs new money to grow.

    FOOTIE growth is clear and constant at the moment

    Why would the government get involved?!

    Most ideas/company models can be copied.

    Money can be made from price rises aswell as dividend ratios etc. That's standard, just look at some tech company ratios or cryptocurrencies etc.

    The market needs buyers and sellers. There will of course be winners and losers.

    The three year thing makes sense but does create selling and buying, so a % each time for FI & they do seem to manage volatility well

    Why would the management want FI to fail?!

    Adam Cole is not new to bussiness start ups and this is something to be proud of. I think he will look to sell off at some point and once a bigger player comes in there will be changes to the platform and I think our investment is small fry!! Compact FI to bitcoin FI not a fraction of the size but it’s got a personal fee to it be it Twitter forum or at a meet the beauty of this is everyone feels a part of this protect



  • @Chicken-Badge yeah, that's part of what I love about FI, it has a real community feel.

    It's also one of the safest gambling/spread betting options out there & a great way to learn about how a "financial" market works



  • @NewUser71518
    I take it this is the funding page you are referencing? - https://www.seedrs.com/football-index

    It's got some great information on there so thanks for raising it! This is exactly the kind of data I was hoping to come across, however its very outdated. As far as I can see all this information is from early 2016. I would love to have access to more recent figures if anyone knows where to find them?



  • No its similar the one I saw had 2 pages of graphical data but I didn't notice how old it was to be fair





  • I also think it's inevitable that a maximum future holding in any one player has to come in for example 500



  • There were two sets of fund-raising through Seedrs in addition to the original funding + different sets of additional fund-raising subsequently



  • Great thread!!!! I have nothing to add other than as previously said 'only invest what you can afford to lose'.. I am always skeptical about these 'too good/easy money making' opportunities which is why I will only limit a certain amount of my own cashflow to this game - I suppose if I could see genuinely where people are losing I might invest more?

    My own skepticism says though this will be a great ride for a couple of years and probably then is the time to get out... Which I hope is not the case but as previously mentioned, if a market is dominated by less than 10 players surely it's a matter of time when everyone simply invests in those 10 players... So 99% of the market comes redundant whilst everyone makes money of those 10 at the top??? Surely FI can't allow that to happen so changing the structure to reduce MB wins to something more PB orientated which is fairer but trickier to predict and more spread out would ensure the game survives longer, but might p*ss a lot of folk off who have huge 'expensive' portfolios based around MB??? and again a mass sell off on that basis could see a crash!!!!

    It'll be interesting to see how things pan out but I think the community deserves answers because If we get them we'll certainly be more inclined to make better decisions regarding how much we do and do not invest!!!



  • I can't see how it's possible to continue with the mb it's a bit ridiculous to be honest am raking in 50-70 a week in dividends and I have only been on 9 days lol



  • The main reason why everything on the index is looking quite rosey is that there has been a lot of cash injection recently which is down to the marketing the guys have done.

    Expect another big media campaign prior the World Cup but after that boom of customers slows growth in players slows and profits will slow.



  • Worth mentioning that whilst everybody is in green and enjoying the ride you actually didn’t win anything until you cash out, need to take the 2% commission into consideration as well as the spread of instant selling and the price drop when putting up shares for sale, the gains figures are inflated and your portfolio is actually worth st least 3-4% less than what you see
    Having saying that the site is gaining popularity and trust with plenty of cash being invested and new countries to come which is an exciting prospect
    Not sure what longer term plans they have as in float or sell, the idea is great and gaining popularity although they are in to make money like any business so be interesting to know how they planning to do that
    Don’t forget many companies do lose money for years and those who founded them still make a fortune, look at Ocado, been launched, made a loss for one reason or another every single year (in fact they never made profits) and then sold for millions making the founders a fortune despite the company losing money year in your out
    Main concern has got to be the high dividends payouts with Neymar being the iceberg tip



  • Its very unlikely a bookie is going to do there own index and not at all close to a bookie buying findex

    The evidence is there with betfair! Who launched in 2001, they didnt get bought out by paddy power until 2016 even tho the exchanges had made a big dent in bookmakers profits much more than the index.

    Findex is also no threat to the big bookies who have anywhere from 10m to 30m users while findex currently has 120,000 registered users they have done well. With the new territory's if findex can get 1m active users they have smashed it


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