Artificial market?



  • Hi been on fi around 3 months now and it's been interesting up 12% so far so very happy. However it was worrying to see so much panicking over a few days of relatively small drops. Around -0.8 % for my self compared to the rises I've had was nothing. Surely people must accept that there will be drops and a few days is nothing.

    Just feel like this 2.5% increase I've had today is totally artificial and that if people become to used to this then I will be expected all the time. Surly for this platform to thrive long term it had to take it's own course without too much interference.



  • Absolutely. I know myself and several other traders have raised concerns orientated around the point you have raised here.

    In my opinion, the way to create a well balanced, natural market is to increase the dividends in the next few weeks/months. The prices of the players now are absolutely crazy compared to potential earnings from dividends.

    You can see players rising 15-20% just because they scored one goal and newer users are looking for quicker short term gains and chasing the IPD's. Of course there is nothing wrong with this method and good for them! However for myself personally, that is not the reason I signed up.

    FI are coming to a crossroads now where they must decide if they will cater for the long-term investor (PB and MB Dividends) or the short term gambler (IPD's).



  • @TomIrving

    The dividend increase is a long way off in my opinion. It will happen, I am certain of that. But it will be a natural progression, once the gap between the top end and bottom half has narrowed.

    I predict around xmas time, there will be an announcement regarding a new dividend structure being implemented for next season.

    That gives them a good 3/4 months of hype and also sustained confidence in the future of the platform.

    The guys running the index do like to drag things out ... understandably so. They are a business and a very successful business at that.

    Tuesday 24 September 2019 was a good day. 🤑👍



  • @TomIrving said in Artificial market?:

    Absolutely. I know myself and several other traders have raised concerns orientated around the point you have raised here.

    In my opinion, the way to create a well balanced, natural market is to increase the dividends in the next few weeks/months. The prices of the players now are absolutely crazy compared to potential earnings from dividends.

    You can see players rising 15-20% just because they scored one goal and newer users are looking for quicker short term gains and chasing the IPD's. Of course there is nothing wrong with this method and good for them! However for myself personally, that is not the reason I signed up.

    FI are coming to a crossroads now where they must decide if they will cater for the long-term investor (PB and MB Dividends) or the short term gambler (IPD's).

    I've been saying this since they introduced IPDs last year. You cannot promote FI as a Football Stockmarket (long-term trading) and also as a short-term platform (IPDs) - two completely different concepts. I can't see how the two can co-exist for long. The only way I can see it working is if they increase the length of IPDs to say, 3 months, instead of 4 weeks.



  • @Londoner Not sure I agree. Why does the phrase Football Stockmarket translate to long-term trading for you? There are plenty of short-term traders in most markets who co-exist alongside long-term traders - and in most of those markets most long-term traders wouldn't be checking their portfolios every hour.
    The difference here is people say they're long term-traders and the world is ending at the first sign of red - that isn't long-term trading. I see absolutely no reason why the two can't co-exist but long-term traders need to do just that and ignore the daily/weekly peaks and troughs.



  • You can still trade long term.
    Players still go up over he long term it has nothing to do with IPD’S.



  • I think it is more of a worry now than it was 3 days ago tbh.

    If there are problems with fi so bad that people are taking their money out and running, then those problems will still remain after this artificial bonus.



  • Whether they inject more money in via divs increases or bonuses, I really dont care. Its still printing money.

    For those that say nonsense like "he prices of the players now are absolutely crazy compared to potential earnings from dividends" - show me the % return on Pogba & Neymar over the past 12 months, and then tell me its not worthwhile. As an investment, they are completely sound purchases, as are all the top 20 if you consider the dividends they will earn you in the rest of their football careers.

    Everyone expecting an easy 50% ROI year on year are fkn bonkers,



  • The market will essentially stay as it has been.

    We all probably had a good day yesterday, especially those with portfolio's at the top end. I've seen a few of these bonuses now & that's essentially where the money tends to go.

    The smart people would have used this cash injection as the perfect opportunity to get out of bad holds & reset.

    There will be a dip, but it's usually less then the initial boost to the portfolio & then everyone gets a 10% bonus. 💰

    But there has been no game changer introduced, no increase in dividends, MB or PB.

    Will it come? 🤔

    Of course it will, but tread carefully if you think this is essentially the turning of the tide.

    Good luck everyone 👍



  • @janner73 said in Artificial market?:

    @Londoner Not sure I agree. Why does the phrase Football Stockmarket translate to long-term trading for you? There are plenty of short-term traders in most markets who co-exist alongside long-term traders - and in most of those markets most long-term traders wouldn't be checking their portfolios every hour.
    The difference here is people say they're long term-traders and the world is ending at the first sign of red - that isn't long-term trading. I see absolutely no reason why the two can't co-exist but long-term traders need to do just that and ignore the daily/weekly peaks and troughs.

    Well said. The one thing last week taught me is that I am definitely a long term trader. I ignored the portfolio "value" total, this goes up and down constantly, down last week, up today. The only figures that matter to me are total deposits, total dividends and portfolio cost. None of these dropped last week, in fact two of them rose as I had my best weekend for dividends and reinvested them.

    I am not selling the majority of my portfolio today, tomorrow, next week or next month, so the "portfolio value" is meaningless and arbitrary. The 4 players I do want to sell I will be patient with and sell during a match when they perform well.



  • I would go as far as saying this deposit bonus is a brain fart of the highest order. That is two consecutive DBs that have been telegraphed. People knew something was coming so could take their money out and put it back in to milk the bonus. Honestly by having a DB every year at the same time, they deserve people to milk the bonus and take their money. From a business perspective its little short of stupid.

    The consensus was that the market was stagnating because it was over valued. So they decide to do a bonus that will exacerbate the situation as well as allow people to easily play the system. Not sure how much money they have thrown down the toilet with this but it would have been far better spent on a dividend rise.

    It's worked out pretty well for me as I have been able to shift some players I wanted rid giving me a balance to milk the 5 percent in phase 2. But really... they need to start to engage brain. If you are having a DB then make it unpredictable. It's not rocket science.



  • @mike778 Thinking the same thing. If there were people complaining there is no value in the big players, DBs don't address that and actually make it worse.

    Ah well, it will level out when all the top 20 start dropping when the next batch of IPOs hit at the start of October(fortunately I will be abroad to miss out on that)



  • @mike778 said in Artificial market?:

    I would go as far as saying this deposit bonus is a brain fart of the highest order. That is two consecutive DBs that have been telegraphed. People knew something was coming so could take their money out and put it back in to milk the bonus. Honestly by having a DB every year at the same time, they deserve people to milk the bonus and take their money. From a business perspective its little short of stupid.

    The consensus was that the market was stagnating because it was over valued. So they decide to do a bonus that will exacerbate the situation as well as allow people to easily play the system. Not sure how much money they have thrown down the toilet with this but it would have been far better spent on a dividend rise.

    It's worked out pretty well for me as I have been able to shift some players I wanted rid giving me a balance to milk the 5 percent in phase 2. But really... they need to start to engage brain. If you are having a DB then make it unpredictable. It's not rocket science.

    Agree with the sentiment about the bonus being a bad idea for traders, although I doubt FI have thrown any money down the toilet - quite the opposite I'd imagine. They will have banked a lot through loads of selling last week, especially those ISing players with a massive spread. And now money has been poured back into the index again, as long as they keep the spreads wide then FI aren't losing.

    The big difference it has made is around people's willingness to part with their money. There were a load of threads on here last week where people were saying they were close to packing it in, hardly any threads pumping players, and now the forum is a pump fest again and we have lots of traders, who were quiet last week, giving advice on where to spend. The latest bonus seems to have glossed over the fact there were a lot of people on here sitting very uncomfortably last week.



  • I wouldn't call it an artificial market but certainly see it as market manipulation....

    Be interesting to see where things are at WITHOUT promotions but FI need promos to survive if previous conditions are anything to go by? It always seems to be there get out of jail card which thankfully we all buy into to keep the market movement as Adam Cole would say... Onwards & Upwards!!!!!



  • It is important to remember that for every experienced user who gets disillusioned by yet another deposit bonus there are many new users getting excited about their first deposit bonus and the growth that it brings.

    Twitter full of positive #footballindex tweets & exposure about huge portfolio growth - Probably a cheaper and much more successful way of marketing than a Sky Sports advertising campaign.



  • nout wrong with a bonus - FI have made a killing selling their premium player Neymar for full price and also making a tonne of commission of people selling. And we, the punters, have all made money.

    It dipped before... it will dip after.. but as with every other bonus this year the net shift is positive.

    If people think the deposit bonus is chaos green lights and rockets... wait until the div increase announcement comes. We don't know when that will be.... but it will be a hell of a lot more of a boost than this has been. It will be like the share split … players will bump 20-50% in minutes.

    Enjoy the bonus... hold through the dips that follow … keep making money and then enjoy the div increase.



  • @Chris-J said in Artificial market?:

    It is important to remember that for every experienced user who gets disillusioned by yet another deposit bonus there are many new users getting excited about their first deposit bonus and the growth that it brings.

    Twitter full of positive #footballindex tweets & exposure about huge portfolio growth - Probably a cheaper and much more successful way of marketing than a Sky Sports advertising campaign.

    The issue isn't the deposit bonus as such, you can debate whether its a good idea or not. I think not but that's a side point.

    The issue is timing. By telegraphing when it is going to happen (they seem to have one every birthday), people know its coming so can just take money out a month earlier and put it back in to get the 10 percent. FI are literally just being played.



  • @mike778 even if that is what happened, it doesn't matter to FI as the index is now at all time high. yes some people will take advantage.. but there is still a net gain to both FI and customers.



  • @mike778 besides to create a dip … it requires people to IS (if all shares were being bought the price would net off) … so during the dip they got commission plus spreads... and then all the money comes back in. Cant for the life of me see how you think FI have been played.



  • @Vespasian32 I suppose the div increase would appear more sustainable, as it would take the onus off chasing Ipds.

    Obviously making short term money on the bonus is good, but there's little incentive to keep that bonus in(I don't trade enough to earn the £10 minimum bonus, so am just trading as normal), if the fundamentals aren't addressed.

    My main issue with this DB is that it seems to show that FI are going to be entirely predictable with its offers and that shit traders can be safe in the knowledge that they can make money even on bad trades, because FI will inevitably throw something in to help them out.

    Guess what happens next year? Money drops out after the Euros, especially in players who have underperformed and into non European players. Then a brief lucrative rise at the start of the new season, with a big drop after the first round of ipds have expired as people sit on their money wait for the inevitable welcome bonus, which will be bigger than this year as it's the 5 year anniversary of the platform so they will do so thing special.


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