29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again)



  • A lot of traders who have ridden out the latest "dip" have been quite derogatory or patronising towards those traders who sold up (which subsequently caused FI to respond, stabilising the market, thank you very much!).

    I've pointed out a few times that it wasn't a knee-jerk reaction - instead it was weeks of analysis and realisation that, with the opening up of media to the squad and also the removal of treble MB days in favour of PB Euro fixtures... OUR BETS HAVE SUBTLY BEEN CHANGED. So a fair few people decided to "cash out". Fair play to them. I imagine they'll come back too, hopefully.

    Opening up media to the squad should have been communicated much better, instead of being trialled for a day (massive failure) and then not mentioned again at all, just simply implemented on the 1st October with no reminders or confirmation.

    But now we have a "dividend review" announcement on 29th October, and this is the important part of this post...

    The announcement of this review basically says to me "we are changing your bets come the 29th, for better or for worse, so you have until then to decide if you want to stick with your current portfolio or adjust it in anticipation of any changes, which can also be made 30 mins after the announcement too. So be ready!"

    Basically, FI are giving us notice period that our "bets" are going to change. This is a first! And it's most welcome 👍



  • @ScouseSte agreed, also the fact that they have said a dividend policy review rather than a dividend payout review would intimate that it's going to be more than just a rise in some areas, more a change of what the dividends are, so maybe losing star pb man and having pb positions per league as an example



  • @ScouseSte

    I hope it's a first step.

    On the 29th, I don't want them to implement a new change.... rather make an announcement about the change and set the change date 3-6 months in advance. Similar to how we all knew the share split was coming months in advance.

    This way, people will change their portfolios more gradually, rather than after 30 minutes of panic.



  • @ScouseSte well im pretty confident all will be for the better whatever they do but in times of uncertainty there are two very safe players which are Neymar and Messi. No matter what changes these two are suited to everything football related so cant see any changes impacting them negatively.



  • @Black-wolf

    You say that... but Neymar was at a 2 month low before this announcement was made, so previous changes had indeed stung him.



  • @Dan-The-Man said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    On the 29th, I don't want them to implement a new change

    I'm fairly sure they won't. I think, and hope, what we will see is a clearly laid out plan for a future dividend change and a clearly laid out plan for how dividend increases (reviews) will work in the future. I would be quite happy for dividend pay outs to be linked to the FOOTIE meaning they increase or decrease in line with the market overall and therefore FI take on no extra risk by increasing dividends and being over-exposed financially should the market reduce.



  • @ScouseSte

    I do have some sympathy for those who built portfolio's around the highly predictable MB winners but for FI to grow into the future they have to develop. Selling the platform to new users should be easily explained: Buy players for their footballing ability & win dividends on the back of their on field performances - that simple.

    I realise that originally the only way to win was MB & that legacy dividend remains, in fact the only decent argument I have seen not to scrap it altogether in favour of footballing related dividends, is that MB gives a 365 days a year payout interest for users. Times change FI have (correctly IMHO) seen PB/IPD based dividends are the way forward & as such MB has become less important but these changes were both announced & obvious to all but the most blinkered & as such any related market changes could have been anticipated.

    If you expand the pool of potential winners from 200 (which in reality was only 15-25 top players) to 2500+ the chances of winning are CLEARLY going to be less. Twin that with the reduced number of treble Media days in favour of more PB/IPD days then MB focused players are highly likely to win less dividends. Winning less dividends will reduce their attractiveness, hence their price will fall - all very predictable market reactions which could have been foreseen, in fact many of us did predict exactly that & were labelled "Pogba haters" & scaremongers.

    Those who feel betrayed or cheated by these changes may well leave, probably with returns in excess of 50%+ a year (which they clearly believe to be insufficient!) but FI needs to build a product for the future & basing it around footballing ability & on field achievement is obviously the correct direction to go in my opinion.



  • I'd be happy of they got rid of Star Man and either paid 2 players per position or significantly increased the divs for the Def, Mid and FWD.

    Media is a funny one for me as it's the one that requires the least football knowledge to win. Everybody knows who the media like to write about. Unpopular opinion probably as alot of people do well from MB and each to their own but it isn't what the platform is about for me. Not really bothered what they do with MB but if they increase PB they would be wise to do the same to MB.

    Ultimately, FI want more trading as that means more profit, they don't want everyone having 3 year holds because it's stagnant shares, they want turnover. IPDs, I believe were introduced for that very reason, to get people chasing new divs every 30 days. It guarantees trading at least monthly.



  • Well my money hit the bank this morning and I've horsed the fucker back in and then some.

    Slightly different strategy though. The only players I hold >£3 are depay and TAA. I wanted to buy eden hazard but I think its gonna e all about PB/IPD going forward and for that reason I think even neymar will struggle to be much over a fiver and hazard therefore looks inflated to me.

    My profit margins are wrecked but fuck it



  • @NewUser159387 said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    @ScouseSte

    I do have some sympathy for those who built portfolio's around the highly predictable MB winners but for FI to grow into the future they have to develop. Selling the platform to new users should be easily explained: Buy players for their footballing ability & win dividends on the back of their on field performances - that simple.

    I realise that originally the only way to win was MB & that legacy dividend remains, in fact the only decent argument I have seen not to scrap it altogether in favour of footballing related dividends, is that MB gives a 365 days a year payout interest for users. Times change FI have (correctly IMHO) seen PB/IPD based dividends are the way forward & as such MB has become less important but these changes were both announced & obvious to all but the most blinkered & as such any related market changes could have been anticipated.

    If you expand the pool of potential winners from 200 (which in reality was only 15-25 top players) to 2500+ the chances of winning are CLEARLY going to be less. Twin that with the reduced number of treble Media days in favour of more PB/IPD days then MB focused players are highly likely to win less dividends. Winning less dividends will reduce their attractiveness, hence their price will fall - all very predictable market reactions which could have been foreseen, in fact many of us did predict exactly that & were labelled "Pogba haters" & scaremongers.

    Those who feel betrayed or cheated by these changes may well leave, probably with returns in excess of 50%+ a year (which they clearly believe to be insufficient!) but FI needs to build a product for the future & basing it around footballing ability & on field achievement is obviously the correct direction to go in my opinion.

    I absolutely agree with you. The media side of things is a bit of a farce. But that's not the point. The point was that when we all signed up 1,2, 3 years ago we knew the terms and we knew what we were betting on. Media was predictable, and that's why Neymar and Pogba cost so much. And that's where the majority of our investments ("bets") were made.
    Our "bets" from this time, which are still very much in play still, have since been massively effected. Unfairly. No proper communication or consideration.

    Basically, it's been as if we placed Liverpool to win the league at 5/1 at the start of the season but because Liverpool are doing so well already then they have decided to slash our odds to 2/1, without any legitimacy.

    This announcement is the way forward in future



  • @NewUser159387 said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    @ScouseSte

    Those who feel betrayed or cheated by these changes may well leave, probably with returns in excess of 50%+ a year (which they clearly believe to be insufficient!)

    Even this comment is way out of line - implying people are leaving because of pure greed. Ridiculous.
    If you read the majority of people's reasoning, it boiled down to not understanding the market anymore, worn down by the illogical behaviour and unexplainable volatility. Nothing to do with greed.



  • @Dan-The-Man oddly yes but im talking in terms of dividend returns which neymar hasnt been lacking in that time. Any change to dividends will alter prices of the players that are likely to earn them unless you are purely chasing cap app. But I believe no matter what the changes are Messi and Neymar will still be the big dividend earners



  • @ScouseSte said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    it boiled down to not understanding the market anymore, worn down by the illogical behaviour and unexplainable volatility.

    I don't understand how these ppl are confused; players that are less likely to win MB (for the reasons above) are less attractive, more sell than buy, so their price falls - what's not to understand?

    I can agree FI are not always the best communicators & could be a lot clearer both about specific changes & general platform direction but to claim that MB players becoming less attractive wasn't predictable is far fetched nonsense, this was all pointed out repeatedly on several forum/twitter threads, Pogba being the most high profile example, months ago.

    Even if individuals couldn't see it for themselves they could read other forum users predicting his price fall with a string of valid reasons on this very forum.

    MB portfolio's got very predictable. low risk, low commission income under the old system & I can accept under the new rules this is less guaranteed & predictable which means some would rather sell & move on but FI can still be very profitable under the current rules. So I wouldn't class it as greed but just requires more work & research to maintain similar gains.



  • Everything @ScouseSte has said, I could have wrote myself. But most especially the line about pog and neymar "that's why they cost so much".
    The truth is that it's been a fuckin scandal what's gone on recently



  • @ScouseSte said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    Basically, it's been as if we placed Liverpool to win the league at 5/1 at the start of the season but because Liverpool are doing so well already then they have decided to slash our odds to 2/1, without any legitimacy.

    Not entirely true as you were free to cash out at anytime as that fall was entirely predictable if you chose to hold on you'll now get less but that's the gamble.

    The game will change over any 3 year period, like the massive price rises generated by the SS, or the boost with dividend increases but as they were almost entirely positive we didn't see many complaining.

    I accept that sticking all your money into 4/5 big MB earners & sitting back for 3 years watching the cash roll in is no longer as attractive a strategy as it once was but as FI grows it becomes unsustainable to fund that sort of approach. As such they have changed the dividend structure which I fully accept has materially affected certain players adversely but they were fully transparent about it & to be fair although players like Pogba have fallen c.25% from their peak they are still c.100% higher than 12 months ago which isn't too bitter a pill to swallow.



  • The wording of it which is along the lines of making sure dividends remain attractive and recognising the growth of the index very much suggests that it will be increased dividends. Not just changing the structure.

    Suspect it will be a soft rise. Probably restoring double and triple pb and maybe adding a 1p media runner up something like that. Which doesn't really recognise market growth but would still see a positive reaction.



  • @NewUser159387 said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    @ScouseSte said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    it boiled down to not understanding the market anymore, worn down by the illogical behaviour and unexplainable volatility.

    I don't understand how these ppl are confused; players that are less likely to win MB (for the reasons above) are less attractive, more sell than buy, so their price falls - what's not to understand?

    I can agree FI are not always the best communicators & could be a lot clearer both about specific changes & general platform direction but to claim that MB players becoming less attractive wasn't predictable is far fetched nonsense, this was all pointed out repeatedly on several forum/twitter threads, Pogba being the most high profile example, months ago.

    Even if individuals couldn't see it for themselves they could read other forum users predicting his price fall with a string of valid reasons on this very forum.

    MB portfolio's got very predictable. low risk, low commission income under the old system & I can accept under the new rules this is less guaranteed & predictable which means some would rather sell & move on but FI can still be very profitable under the current rules. So I wouldn't class it as greed but just requires more work & research to maintain similar gains.

    I'm sorry, i can't seem to get through to you. Your logic seems to reflects the same logic evident in recent trading activity - it's all over the place!

    Traders predicting a price fall? What has that to do with anything?? Just as many traders came back with counter arguments why Pogba etc are good long term holds but either way, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with why traders left, de-risked or have simply just been complaining. I'll spell it out again...

    FOOTBALL INDEX HAVE MADE TWO FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES RECENTLY THAT HAVE HAD, AND WILL HAVE, A DIRECT NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE ABILITY OF PLAYERS TO EARN DIVIDENDS.

    To clarify what this means:
    Many of the top 25 players ticked the boxes that PREVIOUSLY qualified them to earn dividends, and that's why they were so expensive - many investors had /have shares in them.
    IT WASN'T A SIMPLE CHANGE IN TRADER MENTALITY THAT HAS CRASHED THEIR PRICES (AND THE CONFIDENCE IN THE PLATFORM). IT WAS THE MOVING OF THE GOALPOSTS BY FOOTBALL INDEX, WITH LITTLE WARNING OR REMINDERS,

    And to bring this back to the positive note the thread began with, it's good that FI are making announcements to give traders notice of fundamental changes in the future



  • @ScouseSte
    Whilst some of your points are fair, FI gave almost 6 months notice that MB was opening up to the squad which is more than they gave for the share split!



  • @janner73 said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    @ScouseSte
    Whilst some of your points are fair, FI gave almost 6 months notice that MB was opening up to the squad which is more than they gave for the share split!

    Come on mate!

    Six months ago they did a DAY trial that completely fucked up.
    Nobody expected it to still go live at the start of October because there was radio silence leading up to it.

    The share split was blasted all over Twitter and the website etc for weeks leading up to it.

    Hell, I bet people who've joined FI in the last 3 months weren't even aware of MB opening up!



  • @janner73 said in 29th Oct announcement = our "bets" changed(again):

    @ScouseSte
    Whilst some of your points are fair, FI gave almost 6 months notice that MB was opening up to the squad which is more than they gave for the share split!

    Exactly. People shouldn't need reminding of this (although more than one person got this confirmed and then posted on here). If you have money in this platform, especially in the thousands like many do, then surely you have a responsibility to check these things yourself. I certainly didn't feel out of the loop with it. Fair enough it wasn't very smooth with the Willian payout wrong and the day they gave it a trial and everything went belly up but that's a different issue.

    They also gave plenty of notice regarding the share split so it isn't fair to claim that this is the first time our bets have been changed without any warning. The biggest, and probably only, case of that happening was when they just decided to introduce IPD's, that was absolute anarchy and I personally sold up a fair bit of my portfolio then. Since then they have taken care to announce new changes.


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