Liverpool's March To Champions League Triumph



  • @Ericali Lol!
    TAA v Kimmich isn't even a debate.
    There's only 2 ways you can look at it:

    1. By going back to the start of last season as you suggest (albeit flawed under a different PB matrix). BUT at the start of last season TAA was cheaper than Kimmich and therefore if you use that time period he has earned more in CA and almost indentical in divs.
    2. Look at today's prices and their dividend return under the current matrix. For the £5000 you've quoted TAA has returned more than Kimmich and has no potential positional change hanging over him.

    Whichever way you look at TAA is better value than Kimmich and the only reason you can't see it is your whole starting point is how can I devalue TAA today?



  • @Vespasian32 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali actually it's about Liverpool and champs LG... You bought kimmich in due to your agenda

    Someone asked about TAA's last PB win - I said it wasn't recent enough to justify his price.

    You tagged me this morning (bringing me back to the debate) - must be that pint you had last night effecting your memory.



  • Whichever way you look at TAA is better value than Kimmich and the only reason you can't see it is your whole starting point is how can I devalue TAA today?

    In YOUR opinion - as a holder I might add. 🤔

    My opinion is he is overvalued (as a neutral) the only people who are arguing against me are TAA holders.

    Course you will defend your hold!

    Well, what does the platform think? Is he being bought at the minute? No - he's dropped 50p!

    Therefore, the sentiment of the platform seems to agree he's overpriced & agrees with me.



  • @Ericali And yet the player you think is better value has dropped by a greater percentage.
    So which one does the market think is better value given this is purely a TAA v Kimmich debate?



  • @Ericali I'd think that a lot of taa price drop is profit taking purely because he had such a huge spike post dividend announcement

    Also, we all know you dont see the value in the top end of the .market, that's fine. What you dont seem to grasp is that by constantly putting down the top wnd you are having a detrimental effect, not only to the top end but the whole market. If the top end doesn't stretch the market then your penny stocks dont look as attractive...as why would you buy a player that isnt going to win many if any divs when they are priced closely to the top wnd pb earners.

    I have no problem with people giving their opinion when a question is asked, but your constant belittling of the premium players is becoming repetitive and quite tiresome.

    You may not realise it but you do have asway within the forum so your opinion will influence others and you then have a snowball effect of players dropping purely because ericali thinks they're overpriced



  • @janner73 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali And yet the player you think is better value has dropped by a greater percentage.
    So which one does the market think is better value given this is purely a TAA v Kimmich debate?

    Again, this is dependent on the timeframe you want to manipulate to fit your agenda.

    Over the last month Kimmich has dropped from £4.60 to £4.27 (drop of 7.17%) while TAA has dropped from £6.84 to £6.35 (drop of 7.16%)

    So they are pretty much on the same percentage drop - indicating the market sentiment is the same.



  • @Ericali So even on those figures you cant argue the market sees Kimmich as better value than TAA. The very best you can conclude is that it sees them equal in terms of value. Again disproving your opinion that Kimmich is better value than TAA.
    Maybe you aren't as good as reading market sentiment as you like to make out given you can misread something so obvious ;)



  • @Ddr but they are overpriced.

    That's what I getting at. I've had this debate previously.

    I'm not knocking the top end of the market - I'm knocking the ones who are overpriced.

    I said 7 of the top 10 aren't overpriced the other day.



  • @janner73 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali So even on those figures you cant argue the market sees Kimmich as better value than TAA. The very best you can conclude is that it sees them equal in terms of value. Again disproving your opinion that Kimmich is better value than TAA.
    Maybe you aren't as good as reading market sentiment as you like to make out given you can misread something so obvious ;)

    They have dropped the same to an margin of error of 0.01%.

    So with that, on the drop I would rather buy a Kimmich than a TAA. The market agrees both are overpriced.

    I'm sure I said that too... 🤔

    Only difference is TAA is dearer than Kimmich so if I bought him I'd have had more capital tied up in the bad hold.



  • @Ericali said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    but they are overpriced.

    So answer the question I asked much earlier - how much would you expect in dividends for a £6 player? Tell me in your opinion what a £6 player needs to be returning?



  • @janner73 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    but they are overpriced.

    So answer the question I asked much earlier - how much would you expect in dividends for a £6 player? Tell me in your opinion what a £6 player needs to be returning?

    Your the dividends man....

    Compare his returns to Messi who is cheaper so you get more bang for your buck? 🤔

    TAA isn't getting a transfer is he.



  • @Ericali And a much faster rate of depreciation in price. Messi is the absolute best hold there is for divs - no dispute but you're balancing that against the rush to get out.



  • @Ericali If your advice to new joiners in January is to buy Messi knowing dam well his price will on the slide in Feb/March then I hope for their sake they aren't listening.



  • @janner73 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali If your advice to new joiners in January is to buy Messi knowing dam well his price will on the slide in Feb/March then I hope for their sake they aren't listening.

    No, I wouldn't advise them to buy Messi - neither would I advise them to buy TAA.

    I'd advise them to buy Harry Kane being England captain with the Euro's in mind.



  • @Ericali Well we can both agree that Kane is a very good hold then!



  • @janner73 said in Liverpool's Champions League Exit tonight:

    @Ericali Well we can both agree that Kane is a very good hold then!

    alt text

    Did @janner73 and @Ericali just agree on something!



  • 0_1576085333694_trent 1.png !)
    0_1576085425275_trent 2.png

    All defenders 200+ peaks and average base this season 10 starts or more.

    0_1576086448223_trent 3.png
    0_1576086466470_trent 4.png

    All positions 200+ peaks and average base this season 10 starts or more.

    Kimmich will be changed positionally if this continues, he has been playing in midfield for most of the season. That is known. How the matrix may or may not be changed is unknown. If nobody bought for intrinsic pb value because of the fear of matrix changes everyone would be playing low end CA games forever, which i suspect would work out well for @Ericali current strategy, which im not knocking, it served me well for a couple of months b4 divs were increased. The money that could potentially be put into trent would mean less money in the market going into his strategy, and vice versa trent holders. We all have agendas. And we will all frame value in ways to suit it.

    I value players on 2 things primarily, 1 the price the market is willing to pay and 2 if we reached market cap tomorrow who would be the players people wouldnt shit themselves holding. The first question is hazy to answer, the second question, not so much.

    If and when kimmich has changed position, that leaves trent miles clear of any other defender on the index for peaks and base and pretty much every other metric you can find. Plus hes english, plays for a club likely to go deep into the champions league for the gold days, has a little added mb appeal and is younger than everyone else.



  • @dionysusthyrsus OK. Telling people Kimmich is likely to have a inbound positional change & the PB isn't likely to change is just biased & one sided.

    They could BOTH have changes at exactly the same time for the start of next season that effect both their share prices.

    VVD has returned 20p this season compared to TAA's 28p.

    Seen as I can get double the amount of VVDs to every TAA - why should I buy TAA? 🤔

    I'm not against TAA here. I don't dip too much into the top end as many know - but why he is he possibly value at the minute?

    He's a depreciating asset & the market is correcting his value.



  • @Ericali i never said that haha. I said if kimmich keeps playing in midfield he will be changed to a midfielder and if anyone disagrees with that good luck to you. How many times has he played as a defender this year? That is evidence, not speculation.

    And yes the matrix changes could hinder trents pb, but we wouldnt know that until it has been changed, unlike us all knowing kimmich has been playing in midfield. The new matrix could also help trents pb, at the moment its all complete speculation, unlike kimmich, who unless something changes and he starts to play in defence again. And if nobody bought players to suit the matrix we have now, we would all continue playing low end pyramid games which would suit you quite nicely.

    And yes at the moment i understand where ur coming from and as a holder im not overly bothered about soft money coming out of holds when it does when i know their core value is good. Id rather be holding players of good intrinsic value that will keep divs ticking over, over time. Could trent put together 3 monster scores in a row and win pb in 2? Given his underlying numbers, its very possible and the market would correct his value again.

    vvd is 28, trent is 21. The clock favours one far more than the other. vvd has 3 peaks over 200 this season, trent has 8. its a shocking comparison, i expected much better from you. You can deal me pocket aces in poker and still win a hand. If you continue to deal me pocket aces over time the chances of you winning decreases massively.



  • @dionysusthyrsus well we are half way through the season & Kimmich's position hasn't been changed by OPTA.

    Even if it does - they often change them back when they play for their national sides.

    So if the worst happens, for the Euro's he will be changed back to a defender. Just in time for all those silver & gold days people are talking about - that's a stroke of luck hey? 👍

    It doesn't matter about your ace analogy - because if you knew better, you would know as well as me that peaks & troughs are better than a mid range consistent base.

    If we all loved constant base scores Veratti would be £6 too!


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