Sebastiano Esposito IPO



  • @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    First IPO experience today, flipped 700 for minimal profit, keping the other 500 at a buy price of 2.22.

    Lots of links with a potential parma loan for esposito if giroud comes in. If conte doesnt take the europa seriously and concentrates on the league should get some game time there. In his 1 start this season he would have scored 187 on the pb matrix without a gwg had he already been ipod.

    This score of 187, where did this come from?

    Are you referring to the 4-0 win against Genoa in December 2019?

    If so, here are his stats from sofa score. I'm not sure these stats would add up to 187 ... πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

    0_1580230010218_Screenshot_20200128-164050_SofaScore.jpg



  • @johnboywalker See above. The data comes from index gain and they are partnered with opta so no reason as to why this wouldnt be true.



  • @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    @johnboywalker See above. The data comes from index gain and they are partnered with opta so no reason as to why this wouldnt be true.

    Cheers, just noticed the screenshot you posted.

    Can you understand why I am questioning the score? Even with my limited mathematical ability, the numbers don't seem to add up.

    Are you able to tally it up just to confirm. I noted from the screenshot, he was marked as getting a 'CS' which I assume is clean sheet, yet he wouldn't be eligible for that.



  • SofaScore doesn't show all the things that you can get points for on the matrix. Corners won ,recoveries, big chance created etc.



  • @ScoutScout said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    SofaScore doesn't show all the things that you can get points for on the matrix. Corners won ,recoveries, big chance created etc.

    I appreciate that.

    If you have access to index gain, are you able to breakdown his score for me and confirm that 187 is accurate. I seem to be quite a bit off 187 without having the full stats at my disposal.

    Even if you could screenshot the full index gain stats and I'll try and work it out myself.

    CheersπŸ‘



  • @johnboywalker

    Maybe @dionysusthyrsus will do that for you :)



  • @johnboywalker On the ball, well spotted, just got confirmation from bishop that is not added to the overall score was just because he had played 90. iv just been through a couple of other reports too and clean sheets is a metric that is tallied up there too without accrediting incorrect positions the points so its totally normal. Never paid too much attention to it given i rarely hold defenders.

    The scout reports only contain limited data, the full breakdown of the opta reports can only be accessed on there for players already on the platform. but these the numbers they do have. And without a clean sheet it would still be chiesas 3rd highest score for his club this season. Looks like he might have been on corners that game too as @NallyCat alluded to earlier which is even more exciting.

    0_1580232898025_Untitled.png



  • @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    @johnboywalker On the ball, well spotted, just got confirmation from bishop that is not added to the overall score was just because he had played 90. iv just been through a couple of other reports too and clean sheets is a metric that is tallied up there too without accrediting incorrect positions the points so its totally normal. Never paid too much attention to it given i rarely hold defenders.

    The scout reports only contain limited data, the full breakdown of the opta reports can only be accessed on there for players already on the platform. but these the numbers they do have. And without a clean sheet it would still be chiesas 3rd highest score for his club this season. Looks like he might have been on corners that game too as @NallyCat alluded to earlier which is even more exciting.

    0_1580232898025_Untitled.png

    So what are we saying, that the index gain data for players not already on the index is flawed and potentially wrong? πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

    For anybody that gives a shit, I've broken down the score of Esposito from that game, based on the index gain data provided and also info from sofascore.

    The score I came up with is 150.

    Win +18
    Goal +45
    Shots +9
    Shots on target +10
    Passes +28
    Key passes +12
    Giveaway pass -21
    Cross +21
    Accurate cross +4
    Ball recoveries +12
    Corners won +10
    Tackles +9
    Fouls made -10
    Fouled +8
    Offside -5

    "Statistics are like mini skirts; they give you good ideas but hide the important things."
    Ebbe Skovdahl.



  • @johnboywalker said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    "Statistics are like mini skirts; they give you good ideas but hide the important things."

    Depends who's wearing them!



  • @johnboywalker How can their data be wrong when the people who provide them with it are also the people who power the FI matrix? Opta partner with both platforms. So why would you be right and opta be wrong?



  • @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    @johnboywalker How can their data be wrong when the people who provide them with it are also the people who power the FI matrix? Opta partner with both platforms. So why would you be right and opta be wrong?

    Right, so you are saying that 187 is the correct score then?

    If so, break it down for me. Make me believe. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. Prove it to me.

    I'm not trying to be difficult and I'll happily accept 187 as fact if I am provided with hard evidence.



  • @johnboywalker I have no access to every opta powered number, but index gain does given they are in partnership with it. If you trust yourself more than you trust them then thats fine. To each their own.

    i dont have time to bust my balls doing that its why i pay another platform to do it for me, i trust it given they partnered with the very people who run the matrix, if you dont thats your choice. As much as i can tell you have just picked up pieces from multiple fragmented jigsaws to prove a point. Well done, point well made.

    If its wrong fair play to you, if you have direct access to opta to prove you were right fair play to you. In the meantime ill put my trust in those that do have direct access to opta. I dont know everything and i dont care to when i can pay someone else to know it all for me. iv no interest in conspiracy theorys or wondering if the earth is flat. I will trust the authority and more fool me if im wrong, i just dont care enough.

    And btw that score is still chiesas 3rd highest by a distance for his club. in 1 start and without a gwg. It would be chiesas highest score for his club without a gwg even if you were right.



  • @johnboywalker I'll have a pop, I like seeing how my figures come up with those of others.

    It's been said the goal was a GWG so theres 106 straight away
    Obviously that accounts for 1 of his 2 'shots on target's so I'll only credit him with 1 other (3 for the shot + 5 for hitting the target gives him 114)
    The blocked shot will presumably score as a shot for +3 that's 117
    1 attempted dribble 118
    21 accurate passes 139
    2 key passes 151

    Heres where the uncertainty comes in. 21 key passes = 75% pass accuracy sk we can say 7 passes were inaccurate. That totals -21 but we know that 6 of his 7 crosses were inaccurate. Do these account for 6 of the 7? As you showed me the other day, these are not penalized. We'll come back to that.

    7 crosses +21 were now at 172.
    1 accurate cross 176
    4 accurate long balls 184

    Ground duels won, I generally class this as ball recovery, scoring 3
    5 of them =15 giving us 199
    Aerial duels won 0 from 2 so zero.

    1 giveaway possession unaccounted for. I'm gonna say that was his single failed dribble attempt.

    Take that off him and hes on 196

    What we cannot account for is things like 'corner won't or 'big chance missed'. That latter one is -10. Let's say his other shot on target was a big chance missed. That gives him 186 but I'm purely speculating at this point but I am within a single point of the official figure put forward.

    I'd really appreciate thoughts on my work here because this is something I do quite a bit of lately on here so I'm happy for the chance to show my working. Hopefully it adds some substance to the figures I churn out



  • @dionysusthyrsus said in Sebastiano Esposito IPO:

    @johnboywalker I have no access to every opta powered number, but index gain does given they are in partnership with it. If you trust yourself more than you trust them then thats fine. To each their own.

    i dont have time to bust my balls doing that its why i pay another platform to do it for me, i trust it given they partnered with the very people who run the matrix, if you dont thats your choice. As much as i can tell you have just picked up pieces from multiple fragmented jigsaws to prove a point. Well done, point well made.

    If its wrong fair play to you, if you have direct access to opta to prove you were right fair play to you. In the meantime ill put my trust in those that do have direct access to opta. I dont know everything and i dont care to when i can pay someone else to know it all for me. iv no interest in conspiracy theorys or wondering if the earth is flat. I will trust the authority and more fool me if im wrong, i just dont care enough.

    And btw that score is still chiesas 3rd highest by a distance for his club. in 1 start and without a gwg. It would be chiesas highest score for his club without a gwg even if you were right.

    @dionysusthyrsus

    All I'm asking for is transparency and a manual means of independently verifying something you are portraying as factual information.

    Don't take it personally. πŸ‘



  • @MickTurbo

    Mick, it wasn't a game winning goal.

    Start again champ ... πŸ€£πŸ€£πŸ‘



  • @johnboywalker fair enough, I thought I had read further up that it was, I've just scanned through it to be honest. No probs. So that's 35 points to make up. As I always say, the sofascore stats don't account for every matrix action. It's entirely possible that his other shot on target was not a big chance missed (+10), it's entirely possible he played some secondary key passes (+3), it's entirely possible he won a corner or 2 (+5). Perhaps his other shot on target resulted in a corner. These are all actions that are rewarded on the matrix but unaccounted for by sofascore

    I can say he got a minimum of 151 based on the stats available. You will see me say something like "this is a minimum" whenever I give an estimate. I say this because all of the actions I mention here are unaccounted for, but at a glance it wouldn't take a great deal to find him another 36 points.

    Unfortunately without watching the game and really dissecting the performance I don't know another way of saying with certainty what a player has scored



  • @MickTurbo

    And this is the issue. Transparency is key to allow for independent verification of a PB score.

    If we ask 10 different users to work out Espositos PB score, you will probably get 10 different answers.

    This should not be the case. It should be black and white.



  • @johnboywalker I completely agree. I'm happy with my minimum but I absolutely agree that a breakdown would be valuable. Maybe they could produce a rundown like the one given in this thread that I've based my workings off. But obviously detailing every single matrix action. This could be quite an undertaking on a gold day though, or not, I haven't a clue how hard or otherwise it would be really, but it would definitely be of benefit



  • @johnboywalker I dont take it personally mate? i said i couldnt care less and ill (maybe foolishly) place my trust with the authority. Opta partner with index gain. If you believe differently then thats cool.

    Iv put the question to the guy who runs the platform and he informed me the numbers were reliable and the cs wasnt added. Cs shows up on other pages for forwards and i know that is accurate and isnt added to their scores. That will do for me, i dont have time to do the sleuth thing. If it doesnt do for you and you are less trusting thats ok. If you want to be the resource for this kinda stuff thats cool, im quite happy to outsource it to ppl who have the direct access to things i dont know or cant be arsed to figure out.

    If it one day tuns out you are right i will give you an upvote to keep your forum reputation in immaculate order and to show there is no hard feelings. I actually admire the fact you want to question things like this, i just dont find it a very practical use of time.

    @MickTurbo and your efforts trying to figure this out is a fucking stellar effort but is exactly the reason why i am happy to outsource it. It looks like you are both playing a game of countdown trying to figure it all out. We all agree tho that it would be better if there was a better breakdown resource for full transparency.

    In the meantime Id much rather spend my time looking for spanish based players to gnosh off whilst everyone else has spent up on bruno, berge, germans and these ipos. Viva la index.



  • @dionysusthyrsus cheers, I'd really be interested to see what numbers somebody else came up with. Forget the corners won, secondary key passes etc. Just a minimum for the sake of comparison to mine. Unfortunately I really think that's the best we can do at present.

    We don't even know exactly what constitutes a corner won. I was just watching the first half of the villa game and somebody, nakamba I think, tried to swing one in from fairly deep, soyuncu stuck a leg out and it went for a corner.

    Nakamba certainly attempted a cross, but did he win a corner? Probably, but fuck knows really. There will probably be times when the minimum will be well off. This is why I agree there is a need for clarity.

    About November time, bruno scored about 380 in an EL game and was pipped by unal matic. I worked out their scores based on definite from sofascore and came up about 40 points shy on bruno and about 25 on matic


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