Will Market Selling be more difficult now?



  • Having spent a large amount of time going through everything, looking at comments on here and having a think about the changes (difficult while also working full time); I only have one area of real concern.

    In terms of buying, everything is fine and if anything it’s more of a buyers market now as you can either get shares immediately via Market buy or at a knocked down price via bids.

    The issue for me now comes with the fundamentals of selling. Most people buy a player knowing their price is going to increase and with that in mind you aim to sell them just before their peak, ensuring you make a profit and sell while people are still buying. This is because if you leave it too late, they hit their peak and selling becomes very difficult. I think most people will agree with me on that.

    This now changes and I have tried to highlight the issues, as I seem them below:-

    Current Platform:
    Under the current platform when you reach the point you wish to sell a player (as stated in my opening explanation) you have one method of selling, which is to Market Sell. This puts your shares in a sale queue with all other sale shares and with people still currently buying the player you’ve listed, your shares sell in a fairly short time frame.

    New Platform:
    Under the new platform, you still have the option to Market Sell but that is no longer the only place to sell or the only place in which shares will sit for people to buy. There will now also be people selling under Instant Sell for a lower price than Market Sell to bidders (buyers). From the explanations given about the new platform and matching engine, those shares will be the first to be sold because they’re less than Market Buy price and will have buyers matched to them. Therefore, as long as there are shares being sold via Instant Sell, nobody will be buying from the Market Sell queue. It has also been stated that where appropriate Marker Makers will be used to place bids to ensure there is always an Instant Sell price and always an Instant Sell queue (making Market Sell somewhat redundant).

    Conclusion:
    Therefore, the issue I see is that with there being two ways to sell but one of those ways (Instant Sell with matching bidders) given priority on sales, the other sale option (Market Sell) will effectively have to wait longer. This is due to instead of there being one sell queue (current platform) there will be two queues and you’ll be in the second queue if Market Selling. Hence as a seller wanting to get Market Price, this will now take longer to sell your shares, which in turn means the player could hit their peak during this time and you miss your opportunity to sell. Therefore, you are left having to now think about taking a hit on your profits to sell at a quicker rate, via Instant Sell (lower price than Market Sell).

    All of this is hard to explain in just written form but I hope what I have said makes sense. This is my only real concern but it is a key one, which will have an effect on selling.

    Have I misunderstood the mechanics, as that’s is the way I’m seeing it and interpreting it at present?



  • @Erased-Citizen

    The answer to your dilemma is TRUE order books that allow sellers to place sell orders at a price of their choice so demand & supply will interact to establish a genuine market price. I understand why FI have gone for this halfway house of just buy orders but it is a sub optimal solution & will only be resolved when both sides of the transaction are given the freedom to set the market equilibrium price via supply & demand - the sooner the better.


  • Banned

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    What? This response has just confused me even more (my headache on trying to understand this is intensifiying). The new way doesn't only give you one way to sell (Market Sell) as you can also sell via Instant Sell to bidders at a lower price (not sure what you're going on about with IS being a higher price) than Market Sell.

    I feel like giving up on trying to understand this at present. I'll just have to wait for it to be introduced try sell a player and if it proves impossible to sell at Market Price without selling at a lower price via IS, then I may look at trying to withdraw.

    All I'm trying to understand is how this new system will change my chances of selling at Market Price and/or how it will effect Cap App rates. No point having a platform in which you're making profits, if you can't sell the player at those profits and have to take a lower price. As profit is only released when you sell.



  • Surely it depends when you sell? If you are selling at a player’s peak where there are more buyers than sellers, I don’t get why you would sell to a matched bid at lower price as you will still sell quickly if you market sell. That will in turn force the majority of buyers to market buy if they want to get on board for FOMO.

    If however you sell when there is less demand for your player, the chances are you may have to accept a lower bid if you don’t want to be waiting weeks or months.

    So the way I see it - pretty similar to now just with different mechanics and more power to buyers, which should attract new investors/gamblers. 🤷‍♂️



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    Not sure I agree with you here.

    There will still be two ways to sell,

    Market listing - exactly the same as currently

    IS - by instant selling you are now accepting another traders buy order rather than the IS figure provided by fi

    Whether it's as easy to market still is another matter, but there will still be two ways to sell


  • Banned

    @Erased-Citizen said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    What? This response has just confused me even more (my headache on trying to understand this is intensifiying). The new way doesn't only give you one way to sell (Market Sell) as you can also sell via Instant Sell to bidders at a lower price (not sure what you're going on about with IS being a higher price) than Market Sell.

    No you can't instant sell under the new way. You will be able to ONLY sell through market bids. And bids sell highest first.
    If no bids, no sale button.

    Instant Sell is going to be the HIGHEST bid, and the only way to sell.


  • Banned

    @Ddr
    Nope.
    You are wrong.

    Shall I try another picture to explain?



  • @Sped said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    Surely it depends when you sell? If you are selling at a player’s peak where there are more buyers than sellers, I don’t get why you would sell to a matched bid at lower price as you will still sell quickly if you market sell. That will in turn force the majority of buyers to market buy if they want to get on board for FOMO.

    If however you sell when there is less demand for your player, the chances are you may have to accept a lower bid if you don’t want to be waiting weeks or months.

    So the way I see it - pretty similar to now just with different mechanics and more power to buyers, which should attract new investors/gamblers. 🤷‍♂️

    That's why I will only be selling when there is still a demand but just before their peak to ensure profit and sale. As you say, I don't want to sell at a lower price but you'll be forced to as they will be the ones selling before Market Sell and as long as there are people selling low, you won't sell at Market Price. This is getting so hard to explain.


  • Banned

    @Ddr said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    Not sure I agree with you here.

    There will still be two ways to sell,

    Market listing - exactly the same as currently

    > IS - by instant selling you are now accepting another traders buy order rather than the IS figure provided by fi

    Whether it's as easy to market still is another matter, but there will still be two ways to sell

    This is wrong. IS to FI has been removed.



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    What? This response has just confused me even more (my headache on trying to understand this is intensifiying). The new way doesn't only give you one way to sell (Market Sell) as you can also sell via Instant Sell to bidders at a lower price (not sure what you're going on about with IS being a higher price) than Market Sell.

    No you can't instant sell under the new way. You will be able to ONLY sell through market bids. And bids sell highest first.
    If no bids, no sale button.

    Instant Sell is going to be the HIGHEST bid, and the only way to sell.

    I must have read a different announcment to you then. Total confused now!?!?


  • Banned

    0_1589446185127_upload-538fecae-e727-4635-8646-93b8d016c62b



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    0_1589446185127_upload-538fecae-e727-4635-8646-93b8d016c62b

    Yes but that's one way of selling if there are bids. While the other way to sell is via the usual Market Sell.

    I can't see there ever being no bids as they've stated they will use Market Markers for this also.

    Anyway I've got to the point where I'm just getting more confused, my head is pounding and I'm struggle to focus at work haha. I'm going to stop trying to get anything from this or other topics on the same subject and just see what happens. If my concerns come to fruition I will just have to find a way of either adapting (if possible) or withdrawing my funds.

    Thanks to everyone for trying to explain.



  • @MrWh1te *However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    I disagree with this point. In the current system if i list a player, these shares get bought by another user (either from new money or player sales). When i listed the player their Market Price went down, when they were bought by the other user they went back up.
    With Matched Bidding the same thing happens except we won't see the price fluctuation. When i choose to sell a player, if i don't use Market Sell, my sale is immediately matched with a corresponding bid.

    The only way we ever see prices going up, in current and the new format, is if demand outstrips supply. Which will still be the case under certain player events.


  • Banned

    @Erased-Citizen
    That is the only way. The only way to sell is now through bids, which will be highest first.
    No bids = no sell.
    But the only way for a price of a player to rise is if there are no bids and people are buying from FI.

    See the problem now?



  • @Erased-Citizen but in essence, still pretty similar to now - market sell at the right time, hold until the share has more buyers than sellers, accept a long market sell period or accept a lower sell price.



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Ddr said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    I think you have misunderstood the mechanics mate (I think lots have).

    Currently there are 2 ways to sell: 1 being market sell in a queue, and one being IS at a much lower price.

    With the new way, they remove IS and the only way to sell will be to market list (accept a bid). IS has moved from being the lowest price to the highest price.

    It all comes down to this:
    If more money comes into the site than goes out, market sell will be easier and you can see where you are in the queue better,
    If less money comes into the site than goes out, it will stagnate to an extent.

    However, new money coming in will be buying at a lower price, so prices won't go up.

    Not sure I agree with you here.

    There will still be two ways to sell,

    Market listing - exactly the same as currently

    > IS - by instant selling you are now accepting another traders buy order rather than the IS figure provided by fi.

    Whether it's as easy to market still is another matter, but there will still be two ways to sell

    This is wrong. IS to FI has been removed.

    I'll give you a few pics to understand my pov bud

    0_1589446483712_Screenshot_20200514-095016_Football INDEX.jpg

    0_1589446498108_Screenshot_20200514-095014_Football INDEX.jpg

    As you can see, fi are clearly stating that we still have two avenues to sell. And you're right IS to fi has been removed, which is exactly what I was saying. The IS figure will now be another traders buy order (average of top 300 shares), it hasn't been removed completely, just the mechanics behind what price you can IS have changed. Maybe I could've worded the previous post a bit better 🤷‍♂️



  • @MrWh1te said in Will Market Selling be more difficult now?:

    @Erased-Citizen
    That is the only way. The only way to sell is now through bids, which will be highest first.
    No bids = no sell.
    But the only way for a price of a player to rise is if there are no bids and people are buying from FI.

    See the problem now?

    But you're saying you can't buy from FI (i.e. Market Buy). I'm saying there's two ways to sell (via the bids matching engine at lower prices) or direct from FI or other traders that have used the Market Buy/Sell option. But you're saying there will only be the bidding platform to buy which isn't what's been said.

    I genuinelly give up.


  • Banned

    @Erased-Citizen
    IS and MS will be almost identical values.

    MS = buying the exact amount of shares
    IS = buying the average of 300 most expensive shares.

    Now most players will have 300 shares at least in the top price, so will be identical price.
    IS could be
    100 shares at £2.00
    100 shares at £1.99
    100 shares at £1.98

    = IS price of £1.99. This is gonna be not often as there will nearly always be 300 shares in the top price.

    There will be thousands of shares at each price, and the more expensive the share = the more shares in the queue.


  • Banned

    @Erased-Citizen
    You can't buy from FI.

    IS is the average of the 300 top shares in the queue. If there is no queue, there is no sale price and you can't sell.


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