Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids



  • These are the main points I've taken from yesterday's announcement regarding the new matching engine, which will initially only offer 'buy' bids (I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on anything 👍🏻):

    1a. Before we even get bogged down with bids and matches, it is important to remember that REGULAR BUYING is the same. Example: if there is a big announcement breaking on a player moving to united, you are just going to press "buy" at market price as quick as you can because it will be shooting up and no seller will be accepting low-ball bids at that precise time.

    1b. Again, disregarding bids and matches, REGULAR SELLING (listing to market) will remain the same *until the sell function of order books is implemented. This will be phased out in its current form eventually though but it's worth pointing out that any buys such as the example in 1a above will be from other traders with shares in the sell queue (until they are all sold and then from new issue shares by FI).
    So the good news is that if you don't want to get involved with the matching engine, you don't have to. Buying and market selling as normal will still exist for a good while yet

    0_1589445059089_IMG_1435.JPG

    2a. Buying from the matching engine:
    We will now have the option to bid for players at price below the current market value, at the cost of 2% commission to FI on MATCHED BIDS ONLY

    2b. Our bid must be over 60% of the current value of the player (e.g. £6.01 minimum on a £10.00 share)

    2c. Bids are limited to a maximum of 10 at any one time, and can be all in the same player or up to 10 various ones (with a limit of 300 shares per bid)

    2d. When we place a bid, the money and commission is taken from our account immediately (THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST STAND-OUT FACTORS FOR ME). If the bid is cancelled, a refund issued immediately.

    2e. Bids have no expiry date so, as long as the market price doesn't rise and push your bid below the 60% threshold (subsequently cancelled) it will just sit there until matched

    2f. Bids are filled by instant sellers and not from the current market sell queue

    2g. Bids cannot impact market value, which is still based on the movement of 600/900 shares as far as I am aware, so during this first phase there will be no significant drops across the board

    0_1589446418466_IMG_1436.JPG

    3a. Instant sell is GONE
    Over the last 12 months+ Adam Cole said numerous times that IS would be available once order books come in. But it won't be, at least not in the form we are used to. The IS price will now be made up of the "buy" bid offers from traders - this completely removes any liability from FI, which is a positive in terms of future growth etc.

    3b. The SELL price showing on a player will be the average price of the 300 highest value "buy" bids (e.g. If Ive bid for 150 shares at £9.05 and the next highest bid offer is 150 at £9.03, then the sell price showing will be £9.04)

    3c. Because traders are now effectively offering the IS price, there will be no drops when other traders now instant sell in their 1000's (because that will now invoke a buy transaction from the other end, neutralising any drop). During this initial phase of market engine implementation, we are still wrapped in cotton wool and the only time prices will drop are when players are listed to market in quantities of 600/900 or more

    3d. If there are no "buy" bids to be able to create an IS price, football index are likely to use market makers. However, this is not guaranteed so you really have to think carefully now before you buy "bargains". Contrary to what Adam Cole said months ago, there is now no longer a guaranteed exit from a bad purchase 😬

    I THINK THATS ABOUT IT! Fairly straight forward this initial introduction to the machine engine, and the market is still massively protected. Nothing to worry about 👍🏻



  • @ScouseSte

    2c. Bids are limited to 300 per player, on up to 10 players max

    The wording on the FI press release makes it seem like you can place 10 bids per player (so 3000 shares) on as many players as you want.

    " You’ll be able to place a maximum of 10 Bids per footballer at any one time. Each Bid can be up to 300 Shares "



  • @AJH1982

    Sound mate, I'll amend that now 👍🏻


  • Banned

    @ScouseSte
    I think 3c is wrong too.



  • @MrWh1te

    What part mate?



  • @ScouseSte said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    These are the main points I've taken from yesterday's announcement regarding the new matching engine, which will initially only offer 'buy' bids (I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on anything 👍🏻):

    1a. Before we even get bogged down with bids and matches, it is important to remember that REGULAR BUYING is the same. Example: if there is a big announcement breaking on a player moving to united, you are just going to press "buy" at market price as quick as you can because it will be shooting up and no seller will be accepting low-ball bids at that precise time.

    1b. Again, disregarding bids and matches, REGULAR SELLING (listing to market) will remain the same *until the sell function of order books is implemented. This will be phased out in its current form eventually though but it's worth pointing out that any buys such as the example in 1a above will be from other traders with shares in the sell queue (until they are all sold and then from new issue shares by FI).
    So the good news is that if you don't want to get involved with the matching engine, you don't have to. Buying and market selling as normal will still exist for a good while yet

    0_1589445059089_IMG_1435.JPG

    2a. Buying from the matching engine:
    We will now have the option to bid for players at price below the current market value, at the cost of 2% commission to FI on MATCHED BIDS ONLY

    2b. Our bid must be over 60% of the current value of the player (e.g. £6.01 minimum on a £10.00 share)

    2c. Bids are limited to a maximum of 10 at any one time, and can be all in the same player or up to 10 various ones (with a limit of 300 shares per bid)

    They actually say max 10 bid offer per footballer, so in essence could have 10 bids in on 300 players of you're a whale

    2d. When we place a bid, the money and commission is taken from our account immediately (THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST STAND-OUT FACTORS FOR ME). If the bid is cancelled, a refund issued immediately.

    2e. Bids have no expiry date so, as long as the market price doesn't fall and push your bid below the 60% threshold (subsequently cancelled) it will just sit there until matched

    I think you mean if the market price doesn't rise as if it falls then the buy order would still be within 60%

    2f. Bids are bought by instant sellers and not from the current market sell queue

    Bids are filled by instant sellers, not bought

    2g. Bids cannot impact market value, which is still based on the movement of 600/900 shares as far as I am aware, so during this first phase there will be no significant drops across the board

    0_1589446418466_IMG_1436.JPG

    3a. Instant sell is GONE
    Over the last 12 months+ Adam Cole said numerous times that IS would be available once order books come in. But it won't be, at least not in the form we are used to. The IS price will now be made up of the "buy" bid offers from traders - this completely removes any liability from FI, which is a positive in terms of future growth etc.

    3b. The SELL price showing on a player will be the average price of the 300 highest value "buy" bids (e.g. If Ive bid for 150 shares at £9.05 and the next highest bid offer is 150 at £9.03, then the sell price showing will be £9.04)

    3c. Because traders are now effectively offering the IS price, there will be no drops when other traders now instant sell in their 1000's (because that will now invoke a buy transaction from the other end, neutralising any drop). During this initial phase of market engine implementation, we are still wrapped in cotton wool and the only time prices will drop are when players are listed to market in quantities of 600/900 or more

    3d. If there are no "buy" bids to be able to create an IS price, football index are likely to use market makers. However, this is not guaranteed so you really have to think carefully now before you buy "bargains". Contrary to what Adam Cole said months ago, there is now no longer a guaranteed exit from a bad purchase 😬

    I THINK THATS ABOUT IT! Fairly straight forward this initial introduction to the machine engine, and the market is still massively protected. Nothing to worry about 👍🏻

    Other than the few comments above I think you've pretty much nailed it


  • Banned

    @ScouseSte
    That there will be no drops.
    We are guessing, I think, as to whether it will drop when 600/900 are sold, or when they are listed (as is currently) but the drops will still come.



  • @MrWh1te said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @ScouseSte
    That there will be no drops.
    We are guessing, I think, as to whether it will drop when 600/900 are sold, or when they are listed (as is currently) but the drops will still come.

    Ok then this is the one area I'm unsure of.

    If I put a bid in for 900 shares at top price and somebody instant sells 900 at my price then the price shouldn't fall should it?

    As far as I see it, the market price is based on the number of overall shares held in multiples of 600/900 or whatever the mechanism is, and not the price they are sold at.



  • @Ddr

    Oh yes, filled not bought ! Nice one. I'll fix that too now 😂



  • @ScouseSte said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @Ddr

    Oh yes, filled not bought ! Nice one. I'll fix that too now 😂

    And the point above about prices rising not falling to make a bid outside the 60% bid zone



  • @Ddr fucks sake 🤣🤣
    Yea I meant rise! Haha


  • Banned

    @ScouseSte
    This really is a key point and one they MUST make clear.

    Because if prices don't fall when selling takes place, then all that will happen is players will have a ceiling price and trading only takes place under it.

    For instance, because shares are now no longer removed from market (sold to FI):
    Bruno is £10.
    His price will stay at £10 at ceiling, and rise higher as new shares forming but will never drop back, so if he goes up to £13 that will be his new price.

    And then, all the trading will take place below that.



  • @ScouseSte said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @MrWh1te said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @ScouseSte
    That there will be no drops.
    We are guessing, I think, as to whether it will drop when 600/900 are sold, or when they are listed (as is currently) but the drops will still come.

    Ok then this is the one area I'm unsure of.

    If I put a bid in for 900 shares at top price and somebody instant sells 900 at my price then the price shouldn't fall should it?

    As far as I see it, the market price is based on the number of overall shares held in multiples of 600/900 or whatever the mechanism is, and not the price they are sold at.

    As far as I can tell the new is will mean that prices will never truly drop as there will be no way of selling the shares back to fi and taking them out of circulation (unless as i mused last night they use market makers to buy unattractive players at 61% and then fi buy those shares off of the market makers at say 65% if the market maker doesn't want to ait on then), so the only drops we could potentially see would be where people market list....which means the price rises again once someone has bought them from the queue, so not a true drop



  • @ScouseSte said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @Ddr fucks sake 🤣🤣
    Yea I meant rise! Haha

    I do love to point out other peoples errors 🤣🤣



  • @MrWh1te

    Yea that's how I see it during this first phase mate.

    I imagine when they introduce the "sell" phase of matching engine, that is when we will be notified about what makes share prices fall


  • Banned

    @ScouseSte
    And people don't see how bad this is?



  • @MrWh1te

    How so?



  • @MrWh1te said in Order books (matching engine) phase 1 - " Buy" bids:

    @ScouseSte
    This really is a key point and one they MUST make clear.

    Because if prices don't fall when selling takes place, then all that will happen is players will have a ceiling price and trading only takes place under it.

    I think you have it wrong, they wont have a ceiling price, theyll have a floor price that their value wont go under, its almost like saying the point that this is introduced is like every player on the index now being ipod at current market value and theyll never be lower than that

    For instance, because shares are now no longer removed from market (sold to FI):
    Bruno is £10.
    His price will stay at £10 at ceiling, and rise higher as new shares forming but will never drop back, so if he goes up to £13 that will be his new price.

    And then, all the trading will take place below that.


  • Banned

    @ScouseSte
    Ok assume you own Bruno at £10 (I like £10, it makes % easier).

    And assume what you just said is right, that the price won't drop.
    Well you now own a share in Bruno at £10 but his price won't drop.
    Everyone else is trading in and out below £10 and you are stuck.

    You have to either

    1. sell at a loss or
    2. wait and hope the sell queue is empty and people buy at his ceiling price and then you can sell to someone else who will then be stuck with him.

    Everyone buying from each other means price won't raise as fast.
    So you will be stuck longer.

    This is a big issue and something the MUST clarify

    @FI_Mark



  • @MrWh1te My understanding is that for players in demand the price will rise as fast as it does now. People won't be selling to bids but will be listing to market. Why take a >2% when people are buying. So CapApp will occur.

    For the players in the middle, the market price may not change hugely and there will be more trading through bids.....until there is demand (see above).

    For the three legged donkeys and false promises you will be dealing with a large spread, only able to get a good price if they smash it on a matchday.

    I don't think it changes too much, but what it does change is positive. (IMHO)


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