Number of shares



  • Can somebody please help me answer my query...

    Can the number of shares ‘in the market’ ever decrease now?

    When a player goes to a new highest ever price, those shares are bought from FI. Now that Instant Sell back to FI has gone, we can only sell to fellow traders. Therefore, those ‘new’ shares will always be in the public’s hands...?

    If say, a player gets injured and drops from £6 to £4, are those shares relating to the drop ALL in the sale queue??? With FI not buying shares back now, isn’t this the case?



  • Anybody any thoughts?



  • @Johar only way they can decrease now is by them expiring at the end of the three year bet, which FI currently do not enforce.

    Unless FI buy back shares themselves (very unlikely now I'd say) then FI starting to enforce this expiry would be the only way shares would reduce in a player.



  • @Keegans-Bluff

    Hmm yeah good point, had not thought of the shares expiring.

    However, that’s not going to stop there being potentially huge sell queues if a player drops from £6 to £4...? Could mean a lot of people are stuck with shares that they can’t get rid of until they expire?

    Not sure if I’m missing some other mechanic that fixes this? The only thing I can think of is FI buying shares back through these market makers that they supposedly now have. So there might still be an element of instant selling back to FI, it’s just not as obvious as it was before, it’s kind of disguised...

    If they are doing this, I’m sure this will enable them to make huge amounts of cash, as they can buy back the shares (through their market makers bidding) at much larger spreads than the old Instant Sell was set at. This would especially be the case when buying shares of the players who no one else wants to buy in moments of panic at big spreads.



  • @Johar said in Number of shares:

    Could mean a lot of people are stuck with shares that they can’t get rid of until they expire?

    Provided the player is still active (not retiring for example) buyers may offer an exit at a substantial discount via IS but exit strategy is vastly more important now. The introduction of sell orders will also enable a market equilibrium or clearing price to be established as both buyers & sellers can narrow the existing spread, so roll on proper order books.



  • @NewUser159387

    Do you think that could put people off Football Index? If people can't sell a player and are basically stuck with them I can see them getting very frustrated and resentful, almost, towards it.



  • @Johar

    I see full order books as a major answer, as once fully dynamic pricing operates (both buy & sell orders allowed to interact to find a market equilibrium price) there should be very few players that are essentially untradeable, with perhaps only those on the verge of retirement or career threatening injury. I fully expect FI to monitor the situation & if such illiquidy becomes a problem then to initiate some form of market making to resolve it.



  • @NewUser159387

    Yes, I do too. However what I can't fathom is the number of shares on the market and how it changes (or potentially doesn't change now).

    Take Sancho as an example. He is worth c.£13.50 now. Let's say there are 50,000 shares of him held across all traders. You can no longer sell back to FI through Instant Sell.

    When he is 34 and approaching retirement, there are still going to be at least 50,000 shares of him held across all traders (that's assuming no one has let their shares expire and he has not gone any higher than £13.50). But as he's approaching retirement, his price is now £2.

    That means some people are going to be holding Sancho above £13? That is a humongous loss.

    The answer might lie in the full order books and I haven't fully got my head round how they will work. However, I don't think full order books will change number of shares on the market. The only way that will happen is by buying shares from FI, which means the number of shares on the market only ever going one way...



  • @Johar said in Number of shares:

    That means some people are going to be holding Sancho above £13? That is a humongous loss.

    You're failing to factor in the dividends he wins along the way, which effectively offset some or all of his cost but generally players should depreciate as they get older & have less potential to win dividends. Whether & how FI address a potential reduction in shares remains to be seen, they could enforce the 3 year rule so cancel them after that expires.



  • @NewUser159387

    Ok let’s change the player to Mbappe, as he never wins dividends... 🤪

    Regarding the three year rule... Assuming a trader sells his shares before they expire (as they almost definitely will), those shares will be sold to another trader. He’ll then buy them back of another trader. So the shares just change hand and are still on the market.

    Interesting thought that I just can’t figure out!



  • @Johar said in Number of shares:

    Ok let’s change the player to Mbappe, as he never wins dividends...

    Would means he's over priced I suspect but dividend wins can be fickle, just look at Sancho's return over the last few months against his previous record.


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