Statistics are just Lies

  • I play with figures for a living I know how to use them in an argument and am sick of seeing them to twist and argument and portray fiction and fact.

    Mr White and Vespasian I am extremley confident (99.99% certain) that if we go back through you history of posting on here we will find posts condemning pumpers and dumpers especially those that but worthless players pushing there price up and then when they were trending as a top buy selling these shares to newbie traders who unwittingly purchased them and rightly so.

    However I now see you quoting and supporting the fact that a high % of players have no instant sell price (38%) but I have looked at this and the vast majority of these players should not even be on the index and the vast majority have probably never had 1 share purchased. Due to world cups they are on the index.

    Would you buy or should FI buy any of the following:
    Cheshimi R Iran
    Colndres D Costa Rica
    Aseri M Saudi Arabia
    Gomez G Panama

    The answer is obviously no and the vast majority of the players with no sell price are similar, now it may be that FI remove all these players from the index and then you have no argument except that you expect FI to buy shit players who have little to no chance of winning anything off you - You made a bad bet and lose end of story - If you read the rules at outset instant sell never had a guarantee to buy at any price! Why not just pucker up and take it :)

  • @Fletch Theres probably 200+ players on the index that were added just for the 2018 World Cup that’ll never be relevant unless they’re still playing at the next World Cup.
    Anyone that bought these players and expect a cash out after this tournament are imo a small bit delusional. They were only useful for the odd pump an dump witnessed on the trending list.
    When I first signed up I was a victim of this but chalked it down to a learning curve

  • Banned

    Congratulations on making a post calling stats lie, whilst lying AND simultaneously making a thread backing up my point as to why I feel this is an unfriendly place.

    But for the record.....

    Yes I have said pump and dumpers are bad previously. Yes they are bad now.
    Yes 38% of players have no IS. Yes most probably won't ever win dividends.

    And no, you will NOT find me arguing for the inclusion or removal of IS. We argued for 300 posts and it is like you never even read what I said.

    I said repeatedly that I make no judgement on the removal of IS. I have even said I support @Black-wolf in his reasoning for the removal of IS.

    What I have said is, removing IS without warning after stating repeatedly they wouldn't remove is HAS screwed over some users. And you can call it lies all you like, but is is an absolute fact that removing IS without warning, after stating repeatedly they wouldn't remove it, and allowing people to form strategies based on that, HAS screwed some people over.

    Hell even some of the people arguing against me are now agreeing that if removed permanently it would be bad and that they have only removed it temporarily.

    So here are some stats for you seeing as you like them so much:

    100% of the OP on this thread is just rehashing an old argument, pointlessly.
    100% of the OP on this thread is accusing people of saying something they didn't even say.
    100% of the OP on this thread is again calling out someone who dares to say something different.

    Have a day off or learn to read.

  • @MrWh1te

    Let’s not get aggressive with Fletch. He makes a great point which I was not aware of.

    So your revolutionary 38% statement is skewed.
    As explained above by fletch a chunk of the players were redundant anyway and need to be discarded. Load more are probably dead horses. Others are / were just not worth buying.

    So please STOP trying to bend data / stats just to support your continual struggles against FI.

    Ive run businesses long enough to spot people with an agenda. You need to stop this as people can see through you so easily now.

  • Banned

    He hasn't made any good points.
    Can he give a single player that hasn't had any shares bought? I bet he can't.

    It is not bending data, it is an absolute fact, that some people got screwed by IS being removed after being told it wouldn't be removed. It is also an absolute fact that 38% of players have no IS.

  • Amen to the OP. 👍

    Mr White does get aggressive if you don't agree with him. He wants debate yet is blinkered to accept anyone's else's opinion but his own.

  • alt text

  • @DillyDong

  • I must confess I was surprised by the 38% stat, as I've got quite a few cheap players that several posts seem to imply I now won't be able to sell and yet 100% of them have an IS value. Thinking about the number of players on the index that virtually no one holds as mentioned in the OP does actually help make sense of this and will hopefully provide reassurance to those who trade based on IS that it will still be there, as FI indicated it will be.

    Personally I never looked at the spread when buying and I never used IS as I never (IPO cases permitting) had a particular problem market selling pre Covid. However, I know how important it is to some and therefore it is important to me too, because I want FI to appeal to as many people as possible as it helps the platform grow (and me make money!) Nothing I have seen yet has made me concerned that IS is not here to stay.

  • Banned

    Dunno what the fuck people are expecting, when they call me out for lies, then when I post why they are wrong, I am the one that gets hammered by trolls for defending myself.

    <Shakes head>

  • I’m not sure we needed yet another thread that will descend into a repeat of what’s been on many other threads-

    1-Hating on those of us that play both platforms
    2-hating on those unhappy that they have killed their bets by removing an effective IS
    3-Settling personal scores

    I don’t understand why people have an issue with people that play both platforms; I’ve taken no cash out and always planned to use my profits from the other platform to long term invest here. You can play it with a lot less capital than is needed here and it’s enjoyable with instant results (both positive or negative); I’ve recommended that others at least give it a whirl if for no other reason than having another match day rush without losing £100s down the bookies.

    But each to their own, just don’t hate on those of us that like both products.

    If you’ve been negatively effected by a major change from FI then you have the right to be upset, many traders from the forum who have bought lower down the market have effectively had their bets voided in the short term and that can’t be a nice place to be.

    Has it effected me? Yes a little but I was lucky to have a diverse port totalling 10k; I still have concerns long term but I’m prepared to ride it out and see what happened, others aren’t and you can’t blame them, don’t hate them.

    Many are very pro and see the benefits, they are in a position to take immediate advantage of this change, good for them, don’t hate them!

    The personal score settling needs to stop guys, we’ve all been guilty of it and there are a number of forum users I really dislike but for the good of this place we all must simply stop; we are making the environment toxic, some are going way to far and it is bullying. You don’t know what people have going on in their life, how they may be struggling financially, in their personal life, issues due to COVID etc. Let’s not push someone to the brink, let’s not have that on our hands; debate but don’t make it personally, stop the gang mentally it’s just not nice to read. And what I’ve read over the last few days has been me feel ashamed to be part of this community.

  • Last time i am going to reply to a thread like this.
    Both sides have a point and the truth is somewhere in the middle and i'm not trying to attack you.

    0_1590824327525_mr white.JPG

    ^ Firstly that is not true, FI have not made a statement in regards to if or when IS to FI will come back. The time for you to raise your argument and complaints about FI removing IS was weeks ago when they removed it, yes it was 'suspended' not completely removed but you could not use it, same as being removed. That was the time to create this argument and in fact everyone said it was a good decision.

    What FI have done with PHASE ONEof the matching engine is enable on IS (using your statistics) on 62% of the market!! Wait what... We had IS on 0% of the market before ME now we have IS on 62% of the market. How is that a negative?

    FI have done what FI have done to protect themselves as a company, FACT, they have stated IS will only be available from traders for PHASE ONE of the ME FACT. PHASE TWO which will involve sell orders (most likely) and mostly be the final version of the platform for years to come has not been released, therefore to say IS is gone is not true. IS is back from being gone for 62% of the market as you have yourself stated.

    Everyone praised FI for removing IS during the pandemic. Pretty sure we are still in the pandemic? Nothing has changed apart from a button being removed, a button you could not even use.

    Now everyone just clam down, let FI do what FI do and everyone move forward, stop the arguing and attacks and make some cash isn't there football being played today? Focus on making some money from that!

  • Banned

    Well the picture is true, they did say it. I posted it in that big thread. The actual picture. And if they bring it back, I will stand corrected. That itself is true too.

    They hadn't removed IS before, they had suspended it. These are 2 different things.

    I am glad long term they remove IS, that was never my argument, but again, you like others keep taking what I say and twisting it.

  • 0_1590825338920_IMG-20200529-WA0004.jpg

  • @Fletch you still don't have a clue. Regardless of what player it is.... Adam Cole said in live q n a IS would not be removed... It may be phased out after the introduction of OB.

    That's a fact as are the stats Mr white presented at the time about players with no IS. All of them previously had IS.

    Also there are hundreds of players with less than 10 shares being bid for and are under the 60% threshold so looks like the 'market makers' have been asked to make things look better than they are.

    All you see when you scan through the market is the average price of the top bids up to 300 shares. You cannot see the depth apart from players you clicking sell you can see if less than 300 shares are for sale. Its prominent.

  • @MrWh1te

    You mean

    0_1590825557425_mr white 2.JPG

    Taken from the FAQ about PHASE ONE of the ME? I'm sorry but Phase one is temporary. Things will change with sell orders.

    Phase one is NOT the final version.

    I have not twisted a word you have said.

    You have a direct line to FI? You know that when they stopped people using IS before the ME it was just suspended? or is that your opinion and not a fact? You know it has been removed now and not still suspended?

    Anyway i'm not feeding the argument anymore. Going to watch @ScouseSte have another meltdown with the football today! I think the forum needs it.

  • It's important to be critical of a product that many of us have staked considerable money in but the way these "debates" have gone has been a bit embarrassing. All sides can argue their points without getting personal, and tbh when a poster is obviously flustered, their points (which may be reasonable) are undermined.

  • @Fletch stats aren't lies but they can certainly be used to make things seem worse or better than they are. For someone that has always operated down the lower end of the market, I have been trying to sell a fair few of my players for months and not one share sold. I was derisking on kroos at £3.35 for 3 months and not sold any yet. I had 2000 gundogan and not sold a single share at market. Then we talk about the real cheapies at 40p and under I was sold and instant sell button and now we don't have one.

    Stats may say that 38% don't have an instant sell price but another thing the stats don't say is even the ones with instant sell "value" lots of them will be around 70% discount which is hardly an instant sell more of an insult. So if you say those of 38% stats are skewed, I could get some stats saying how enormous numbers of the cheaper players don't have a instant sell value of within 50% of there value.

  • Banned

    @London-Is-Blue Yes I know it was just suspended.
    They made an announcement. It is sat right there on the app for you to see...

  • @London-Is-Blue said in Statistics are just Lies:


    You mean

    0_1590825557425_mr white 2.JPG

    Taken from the FAQ about PHASE ONE of the ME? I'm sorry but Phase one is temporary. Things will change with sell orders.

    Phase one is NOT the final version.

    I have not twisted a word you have said.

    You have a direct line to FI? You know that when they stopped people using IS before the ME it was just suspended? or is that your opinion and not a fact? You know it has been removed now and not still suspended?

    Anyway i'm not feeding the argument anymore. Going to watch @ScouseSte have another meltdown with the football today! I think the forum needs it.

    Yep, got a few turkeys involved today so the old IS button might be getting hammered today if my patience wears thin again 😂🙈

    It's mad how 6 days ago I blew 2% of my port and it's now up 5%!! Having TAA and Foden making up 1/6th of the portfolio helped mind you 😜

Log in to reply