Pros and cons of a GK category

  • Was having a discussion on another thread about how I believe there's been a push to get Goalkeepers into a separate position category to cover the fact that a lot of users have made bad investments. Have started the thread with this so I'm not hogging a post with a different topic to the OPs.

    Wanted to have a look at data so far from the Bundesliga restart and I'll present it in my biased way, but feel free to comment on why I am wrong as interpretation of data plays a big part and I realise I am stubborn so may be missing some underlying factors

    link text

    Obviously mad times with only the Bundesliga playing, and using a smaller dataset, but a few things came up that I hadn't thought of:

    GKs won star def twice out of 15 days (and not on single game days)
    Nineteen GKs have played so far since the restart. Five of them aren't on the index.
    If there was a separate GK div, Hradecky would have won it in 60% of the days he was playing(albeit a large part being down to him not being up against many other keepers).
    When it comes to PB, Casteels is a big wobbly pile of poo.

    Some weird things came up that mean that I am currently still of the opinion a separate GK category wouldn't work:
    Despite being a silver match day on 27/5/20, 1/2 the goalkeepers weren't on the index, so the amount of GKs available would be equivalent of a bronze day
    On 24/05/20, only 50% of keepers were again available on the Index. This resulted in a game where no eligible keepers were involved.
    There was 1 game playing on the 22/05/20, meaning the potential winning goalkeeper earned just 33 points after being on the receiving end of a 4-0 drubbing.
    On 29/05/20 Hradecky would have earned divs after a not too bad 122 points. However, he only needed -5 points to win.

    For me, the smallest of tweaks could mean that GKs have more chance of winning top defender, without it being a given of happening and massively devaluing defenders.
    If FI were to implement a separate Goalkeeper category, they would probably have to do it after they implemented a reliable IPO system, so they could guarantee all GKs were available (as it's a much smaller pool of players.

    FWIW, this tiny amount of data has made me think that the only way you could implement a GK div is to have it separate to the standard thing of top position and to award a div of 1 or 2p based on hitting a certain score (maybe 180-200 or the top x goalkeeper scores ever). Having a div payout on a score of 33 would devalue the product I feel.

  • It's rather an assumption that people are putting forward an agenda due to 'shit buys' as you put it.
    GKs are part of football and as such deserve to be able to compete for PB on a level field.

  • Good post and stats to back it up. I'm all for a gk category but it needs to be in line %wise with the wins to position ratio. Maybe wait until they pay a few pence more per position and then introduce them at 1p win etc.I think This is why FI may of held back on this. This is another market booster for them in any times of uncertainty. For the record I only have Lucas paqueta as a shit buy currently although I'm topping up and reducing my average cost of him.

  • @Dan-w
    By that logic, in your typical 4-4-2 line up. FWDs should get half the Divs as DEF/MID because they're competing against less players?

  • @Dronny-Gaz typical 442 but options of 4-3-3 or 3-4-3. Either way can only ever be 1 goalkeeper..

  • What do you do about divs if a team plays 4-5-1?

  • If not necessarily their own category they certainly need to be able to challenge for PB surely?

  • @Dronny-Gaz I agree they need to be on a level playing field, but is a 1/4 chance of winning for a GK, when it could be a 1/20 chance for a defender? I also think keeping them in the defender category does keep it fair with a slight increase to the PB scores for keeper, as defenders and GKs performances are somewhat interlinked. E.g I would expect Neuer to have lower scores playing for Union and would expect Trapp to have higher scores if he signed for Bayern as they concede less shots

  • @Moukoko
    And we should tweak the Divs for the 1/8 FWD too?
    Or 1/4 depending on formation?

  • @Dronny-Gaz I'm not sure but over the whole 5 leagues worth of fixtures there will be significantly less keepers playing than strikers, so a new catorgory would have to be inline %wise somehow. If not a new catorgory then perhaps something like a few more points for a save. Alot more for a penalty save etc. I would prefer them to have their own category though. Would make them worth Investing in then and don't think I will until then.

  • Ok. So 4p PB for Mid/Def, 2p for Fwd and 1p for GK.
    If you wish to work it on a player ratio concept.

  • Whether their own category or tweaks to their scores, they must be able to compete like you said. 👍

  • @Dronny-Gaz something like this would work but would have to scored by positions on a game by game basis though as players change roles from mid to attack or even def to attack game by game. Fuck knows. FI aren't doing too bad a job afterall🤣

  • @Dan-w They do well mate. Just a few tweaks here and there which I'm sure they wish to address too.

  • @Dronny-Gaz one thing i do know is I would like gks involved so I can recoup my £34 loss when I brought into them from before when alot of people was expecting an announcement on them 😂

  • @Dan-w
    Look who's joint top today? 🤣🤣🤣

  • I cannot for the life of me work out why people wouldn't be in favour of it. We should be as greedy as we can be when it comes to dividend payouts, whether it's new categories, tiered PB, increased payouts or whatever. The more that gets paid out, the more value you are getting from your bet and the more money that comes into the platform. The more players on the platform that are tradeable the better the platform is too.

    I totally understand that FI should only increase dividends when they can afford to but let them make that decision, it's not up to us and we shouldn't be trying to do their job for them by talking others out of the idea.

    It's an area of the market that is massively undervalued. All keepers do at the moment on FI is occasionally take dividends away from defenders, but it makes absolutely no sense that they're lumped in with defenders as the roles are totally different.

  • @Yellow bang it in the survey!🤣🤣

  • When players are tied on PB, who wins?

  • @Dronny-Gaz said in Pros and cons of a GK category:

    When players are tied on PB, who wins?

    The youngest.

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