Matching Engine



  • @ocs123 said in Matching Engine:

    The buy now price wasn’t unrealistic for 5 years, so why is it suddenly now?
    Answer... because FI fundamentally changed the market and how it operates.

    Which introduced fear & uncertainty & in the process destroyed much market confidence & buyer demand which has resulted in the current stagnation & lower buyer demand funded IS prices. We seem to agree on the problem but just have different solutions to address it & whilst I believe both would work I'm also certain that FI won't be reintroducing yours. They have clearly set a path towards full OB's & I believe in time that will provide a successful solution but I do have sympathy with those who are sitting on holds bought under the previous system (which at least in part relied on a FI backed IS exit) & now justifiably feel betrayed.

    For what it's worth I think FI have handled the transition towards OB's appallingly, even though I believe it was done in the best long term interests of the platform, & that they should still act appropriately to offer those stranded sellers a fair exit. Whether they will or not seems rather unlikely IMHO but I think trying to second guess FI decision making often proves impossible. I firmly believe in the strength of the product & that future growth will be strong but I also don't feel it's appropriate behaviour to leave customers feeling cheated & betrayed along the way, responsible gambling applies equally to platform operators as it does users IMO.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Matching Engine:

    They have clearly set a path towards full OB's & I believe in time that will provide a successful solution

    What are you defining as a "successful solution"?

    I'm struggling to see how order books would be good for users?

    It's surely just a race to the bottom.



  • @Dan-The-Man

    It redresses the balance of market power between buyers & sellers; currently buyers have (almost) all the power & sellers are frustrated, once both sides can initiate buy/sell orders then ACTUAL demand & supply will interact to generate a fair (market clearing) equilibrium price & restore liquidity. Whether the general market & consequently prices then rise or fall will be entirely determined by the conflict between fear/greed, uncertainty/confidence, performance/disappointment but will be an ACCURATE representation of the market sentiment at any given moment. As comforting as it was that FI provided "artificial buyer demand" in the form of IS it was an unsustainable long term business model so better changing the system now rather than risking the viability of the platform at some future date IMHO, notwithstanding my clear disapproval of HOW they have implemented the change, it is clearly the correct direction of market development.

    Given that my view of the medium/longer term prospects of the platform is very bullish I see OB's as a very good thing & those who stay the course will benefit from potentially massive future growth & rising prices, even if it means sustaining some short term market stagnation until all the mechanics are finally in place.



  • I see ME as a short term stop gap, I'm happy with it in that context but would be disappointed if it was around in its current form past the end of this season.



  • Just catching up with the responses now - appreciate the feedback and some good suggestions. i appreciate things take time to implement but FI surely must know all of this and the impact its had/having. in my opinion they are endangering the market, by not finding a quicker solution - the short term damage its doing to existing punters (some who have been on here for years) is a massive negative for me...and they will be replaced with new customers who will not fully appreciate how good the product is or was - therefore maybe will not have such a huge interest(addictivness) in it as we all have, which is whats kept it going.



  • They have to become the MM for the sub 200.
    I find amazing that the market had risen since the Covid started but there there were a lot of promotions which encourage people to invest money even if they could not sell the shares. People trusted that they could sell at some point. These people must feel the have been mugged of. Then to change the rules is unfair. I’m sure FI we’re making great profits before the change so to say the market need to mature is a load of rubbish. This is not a stock market and I doubt there will ever be enough liquidity in the index to support the sub 200 players.
    They should of let the sell of happened instead of manipulate the market to stop it. Because in the end the sub 200 players have taken between 20 to 60 % drop just like they would of in a sell of of the market. In stead FI have aloud the correction to happen while not letting people sell. pocketing the difference. VERY NICE
    No stock market would ever be aloud to manipulate a market like this. So remember is a gambling site not a stock market.
    The dow went from 29500 to 18500 and is now back up to 25000. That the way markets work. They did not stop people selling or change the rules. They aloud the the market to work.

    FI should always be able to be MM. If they sold the shares then they should be able to buy them back.



  • @NewUser218220 said in Matching Engine:

    FI should always be able to be MM. If they sold the shares then they should be able to buy them back.

    Mike Bohan also promised in June 2019 "IS is a very important market support & will remain whilst ever the market needs it" therefore to so blatantly back track & remove it (under the cover of CV) & abandon the buyer/holders who bought players under those "rules" is unacceptable IMHO. FI should honour their obligation & allow, even just that fairly narrow definition of stranded sellers, a fair exit price. OB could then be applied to any new purchases with a clear conscience & those unwilling to accept the new T&C's could leave on acceptable terms. I fully acknowledge that these holders have been treated unnecessarily unfairly & the overall cost to redress that injustice would be relatively minimal especially compared to the potential reputational damage of an ongoing "betrayal" narrative.



  • @Dave-B punishing? You have a choice to hit the sell button.If you’re willing to take a 20% hit to try and catch the next spike then on your head be it.

    I am not suggesting ME has been a full success but traders also need to take responsibility for

    A) who they buy
    B) when they buy
    C) who they sell
    D ) when they sell

    If you’re struggling to sell a 34 yr old in the Hungarian league with no PB and no MB then there’s only really one person to blame!!!



  • If we look back a month or so, pre-ME, I think people were saying the following:

    • well done FI on stopping IS, otherwise market would have tanked in a very bad way
    • IS needs to be re-introduced slowly.

    ME partially ticks that final box. It has allowed some people to exit their holds where they needed their cash out. A side-effect of this though is stagnation, with cash stuck in bids, market buying looking less attractive, and spreads that are too wide for the sellers still in the game.

    So, where next? Absolutely need sell order functionality, and fast. This will start setting a more realistic market price for shares and will surely increase trading? Why can't FI communicate more on timelines for this?!! Their comms is so frustrating.

    But I still don't think that sell orders alone will see trading levels of yesteryear. If FI's IS is permanently gone I think that there is irreparable damage to trader sentiment for some and no willingness to pour more money in. I don't believe market makers can solve it either. There are simply some shit players that are worthless now (should have always been worthless) and I struggle to see MMs helping too much with the very bottom of the market, not at any reasonable (i.e. prev FI ridiculously good) spread anyway.

    If the platform started today, this final point wouldn't be such an issue as people would evaluate the game on that basis. But FI customer base must have loyal numbers with cash tied up in that bottom end and they really need to think about how they treat those customers....unless they are seriously confident new money is coming.

    My port is less affected, with only a small amount tied up in bottom feeders, but I feel for those who have a different port split.

    Digressed pretty far there and forgotten the original Q...



  • @TotalPunt your username suggests the exact scenario for those affected dramatically by the bottom feeder strategy!!!!

    You pay your money.....



  • @TotalPunt

    Couldnt agree more with what you have just written, looking at it from both sides



  • @RedknappsEyelids The point is the game got changed. Previously there was a viable strategy for some. FI shut IS down, going against prev comms, and that seems wrong.
    There was always a risk that would happen but low risk for it to happen without warning and contradicting what's been said before. Can't simply blame the trader.

    Who knows, maybe FI IS will come back.



  • @RedknappsEyelids
    in my opinion this is completely inaccurate. who you bought 12 months ago at the existing terms is totally different to that player now at the current terms. you wouldve evaluated buying that player at the time and amde a judgement on whether it is a good buy - you cant predict that in the future that the goal posts were going to change... and you cant apply your theory of a 34 year old hungarian player as there are some genuinly decent holds which have been affected



  • @RedknappsEyelids Maybe my choice of words wasn't the best, I agree with your points. But we'd both agree patience is key at the moment.

    I certainly won't be selling at a 10-20% loss, I just hope I'll be able to trade again in the near future



  • @G27

    1. It’s a gamble, not an investment
    2. But with a 3yr hold in mind, not an instant get out. Don’t gamble what you can’t afford etc etc
    3. Perhaps this is a good way of rewarding those who actually research rather than speculatively buy any old crap.

    Do t get me wrong I have successfully gained some cap app on crap and have one or two holds that are currently down. But I had a reason to buy when I purchased and no reason to panic sell now. - either Euros, PB league move, future prospect etc. This point stands regardless of whether it’s Paul Pogba or the 34 yr old Hungarian.

    Might be wrong but it seems much of the ire is from people who’ve punted masses into a total punt player and now can’t get out quite as easily.

    You’re either betting what you can’t afford or your impatient.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Matching Engine:

    @Dan-The-Man

    It redresses the balance of market power between buyers & sellers; currently buyers have (almost) all the power & sellers are frustrated, once both sides can initiate buy/sell orders then ACTUAL demand & supply will interact to generate a fair (market clearing) equilibrium price. Whether the general market & consequently prices then rise or fall will be entirely determined by the conflict between fear/greed, uncertainty/confidence, performance/disappointment but will be an ACCURATE representation of the market sentiment at any given moment.

    Given that my view of the medium/longer term prospects of the platform is very bullish I see this as a very good thing & those who stay the course will benefit from potentially massive future growth & rising prices, even if it means sustaining some short term market stagnation until all the mechanics are finally in place.

    No offence intended but that sounds like fancy drivel to me. Good in theory but likely to be terrible in reality. The way I see it, the instant sell price will become even lower than it is now.

    0_1593087299437_Screen Shot 2020-06-25 at 13.14.40.png

    Take our pal Hazard here. His current sell price is £3.34...

    What you're proposing is that as an owner of Hazard, I could put a sell order out at £3.50, so that a buyer could meet me halfway.

    In reality, what we'll likely find, is that £3.50 will be treated as the new Buy Price, so we'll see a larger drop in the Sell Price as people look to get in at a discount.

    As far as I can see, you're basically advocating for a race to the bottom.



  • @TotalPunt “there was always a risk”. Nail on head.

    Many people seem to have forgotten this and adopted an “it’s not fair I signed up for free money deposit bonuses” attitude.



  • @Dan-The-Man said in Matching Engine:

    As far as I can see, you're basically advocating for a race to the bottom.

    When demand>supply then his price rises so when (as a current holder) hopefully he finally performs & starts winning dividends his price will rise, as many more buyers will flood into what looks like a premium hold again overwhelming the few sellers looking to cash a profit, conversely when supply>demand prices will fall, not really sure how else you'd like the market to react?



  • @RedknappsEyelids

    i think you being a bit guilty of not seeing the full picture, people have different strategies, it doesnt necassarily mean theve bought crap. i dont disagree with your first 2 poinbts but i dont think they are relevant in this case. your point about being patient is definately relevant but again, someones strategy at the time may have been more short term.

    like you i am not hugely affected by the really low end players under 30p say but i do have a decent number of players under £1 .

    as an example take Bruno Petkovic - i would still have said he was a decent punt at 75p/80p - he had Euros and there was talk of him moving to a PB league. hes gone down to 65p - no problem, thats the gamble you take and he still has the upside he did previously.
    however is IS is now 33p! for someone buying him at what they thought was underpriced (eg 75p) they still had the confidence of instant selling if they made a poor judgement, and accepted a loss to get out of the hold. but to cut the legs from under, remove instant sell temporarily, suspend the market (which i agreed with) and now to see a player with decent upside IS value at 33p is really poor.

    obviously just 1 example but i can see many of that vaklue with high enough upside to have given you a reason to buy at the time



  • @NewUser218220 said in Matching Engine:

    They have to become the MM for the sub 200.

    I get what you mean. I'm largely involved in the sub 200 players. Had I not pulled my money pre covid I'd be fucking fuming at what has happened. As it stands, I am am now reinvesting in that market, so I am benefiting from being a buyer in a buyers market. I certainly do not feel good about it. Some of the bids people are accepting make me cringe. They are not going to feel good about the platform selling me those shares at those prices, I know that much.

    Right now it feels like the lower end is dead. But I am buying there. I (have to) believe that FI will provide an organic solution to allow that end to buzz again. All it will take is some kind of ongoing trading incentive like longer eligibility for IPDs, or the bonus promotion back in place long term. Literally, as soon as something like this is in place, the bottom end will suddenly look very attractive, and this will provide a natural release for those wishing to get out of the holds that they feel trapped in. Most likely, many will regret now selling their players so cheaply (unless of course they need the money - this is the part that is so difficult, and at least ME has in someway allowed a get out.)

    I my self hold 5,000 Eduard Lowen, that's 10% of my current port value. But I am not worried as I am sure that they will do something that will allow me to vastly reduce my holding within the next few months. It is not in their interest to stop people trading in players across the spectrum, but they do have a habit of moving value around. That is what drives commission.

    Right now the top end only looks viable, six months ago it looked dead. Dividends should always drive the market, so when it is in FI's interest to drum up commission, they will provide incentives for traders to move money around. They have shown us with IPDs and super scooper points that they want us trading short term as well as long term. They would actually prefer us trading short term - so just buying the top 200 and creaming divs all of the time is really the opposite of what they will want.

    The market won't stay like this. It will get moving again, no doubt in my mind. FI will provide the system (perhaps a more short term solution for the next 12 months, then full OB and Nasdaq after) and the incentives required to get people out of the holds naturally and not have to resort to taking desperate measures. If they don't then they will be in trouble.


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