Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?



  • Morning All,

    Like a few fellow traders I suspect, I find myself checking the app and FI twitter alittle more than I should.

    I love the product, so will like to stay involved albeit with a more passive approach. I appreciate that the market can move quickly at times but has anyone had experience of implementing a more passive strategy. or approach to FI?

    Would love to hear from you if so or any general advice you may have.

    Thanks All.



  • I tend to be way more obsessive about my port when I have large holdings in a smaller number of players... To be honest I do think that this is probably the way to maximise your profit, but it is also quite stressful and consuming.

    It can be like a game of poker against yourself. First work out what the conditions need to be for you to trade the most efficiently. Personally I over-traded big time in my first year. I could see it was going to negatively affect my income so I figured out a new strategy to stop me trading so much.

    I decided I wanted to be able to be more passive, so I began spreading my money around more thinly. This approach means I have a lot of players on game days, and that means I don't tend to trade too much. I usually go for cheaper players in mass numbers, but I am now using a mix of premiums and cheapies - the premiums will be steady risers and will notch you up divs, and the cheapies can make you some exciting CA...



  • @Baydog said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    Personally I over-traded big time in my first year.

    A common mistake that we all make but at least in exchange it allows gaining trading/platform experience; I have found a good solution is to leave a large % of my portfolio well alone (3 monthly reviews but largely untouched) then allow a small % for frequent trading, IPD chasing, short term opportunities, around 80/20 split currently. This allows the powerhouse, dividend earners to keep doing their thing (yes I could trade in/out more profitably but that also requires good timing & involves both cost & risk) & the resultant dividend stream provides constant income to fund the trading side. Of course this requires strong discipline but seeing my dividend returns, approx 5x larger than my commission paid, constantly tick upwards reminds me why such self control is worthwhile.

    I see many suggesting holding 20 or less players but this is far too risky an approach for me as I believe in the principle of diversity (2%/player maximum as a general rule), even if it means slightly lower potential returns, my portfolio has just about doubled in value in 2 years, so I'm not complaining or changing my strategy.



  • @Geronimo159387

    Yeah the over trading on my side was absurd... My commission paid is over double my dividend income... Chasing trends did not serve me well..

    I have become a lot more disciplined, and only really buy players for medium - long term.. However with ME, I can see a lot more opportunity for some short trades too... I'd say I'm probably also set up about 80/20 on long and shorter holds - I'd love to have the discipline to keep a cash balance, but that ain't happening,,,

    My major shift in thinking is to add premiums to my port.. I have not really dealt in them for well over a year, but the div stream is even more attractive when you can use ME to make the income work for you



  • @Baydog

    Baydog, in that first year where you over traded what was your overall performance, up or down. I started slowly, had a diverse portfolio, had what I call a few FIFA picks, but currently over trading now in this mad world to offset the parts of my port that's sinking like the Titanic.
    If I cashed out now I would still be at a loss, but not as big, and I'm slowly building a small cash pile ready for the next change if required.

    No idea what's right or wrong as it's all just opinion..



  • I hold a large portfolio with smaller holds, and it's worked very well for me. I resist the urge to trade on rises/dips, and in the long run it's been very profitable. Obviously there will come a time when that strategy is less efficient, but for now it is still a sound approach I think.



  • @AS-AS

    It was a poor performance compared to what it could have been. I was making monthly deposits so it is hard to be sure as I do not use spreadsheets. I think I had about £8k in, and I was up to about £12k after the first year. In earnest I probably made most of that profit in the second six months of my first year, having learned some costly mistakes at the start!

    My biggest losses were incurred due to inexperience of the cycles. I joined in April and the season was winding down. I bought a load of premiums but most of them were going down in value which I could not understand (now I realise it is what happens towards the end of every season, as people move money into transfer spec holds, and it was the world cup that year too.) I lost a lot of money panic selling good players at a loss because I could not understand why their price was tanking... It was an expensive lesson, but now I know that when the PB players are dropping off at that time of the season, then is a great time to buy. You could probably sell many at a 50% profit in Sept/Oct having purchased in May/June..

    Even though the market is doing well right now, my port has still dropped about 1.5% this week. I am not worried at all. I am buying off trend players at the moment, and expect some to slide a bit more as everyone is selling off (to me) to jump on the big guns... The temptation is to do the same and go where the money is going, but right now I think there are many opportunities to get some very cheap shares in some less fashionable players..



  • @AS-AS said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    No idea what's right or wrong as it's all just opinion..

    There's no right or wrong approach on FI, as opportunities exist to make money from many different strategies. whilst ever the platform continues to grow, I fully expect this to continue for the next few years, even poor trading can often result in a profit! My main aim is to make MY OWN trading as successful as it can be; which involves understanding & appraising all different approaches but it's essential to choose an overall strategy that suits my own personality & trading methods.

    If you are an impulsive, all or nothing type gambler it will generally result in failure trying to impose a steady long term investment type strategy, as although a valid strategy it's pointless if you lack the self control or disciple to execute or believe in it. Being honest with yourself & the strengths & weakness's you possess is almost the first step in deciding which approach will be most successful & best suited to you.



  • @kristiang85 Yeah, this is my approach down to a tee. Being patient is key. I don't have the liquidity to be piling in big all of the time, so I prefer to go after the marginal gains. Smaller gains, sure - but safe and pretty constant.



  • Thanks for the feedback, hopefully over coming months I'll be able to trim the deadwood from the port and solidify long term holds. Being more passive, whilst less exciting , definitely seems the right balance for me



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    @AS-AS said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    No idea what's right or wrong as it's all just opinion..

    There's no right or wrong approach on FI, as opportunities exist to make money from many different strategies. whilst ever the platform continues to grow, I fully expect this to continue for the next few years, even poor trading can often result in a profit! My main aim is to make MY OWN trading as successful as it can be; which involves understanding & appraising all different approaches but it's essential to choose an overall strategy that suits my own personality & trading methods.

    If you are an impulsive, all or nothing type gambler it will generally result in failure trying to impose a steady long term investment type strategy, as although a valid strategy it's pointless if you lack the self control or disciple to execute or believe in it. Being honest with yourself & the strengths & weakness's you possess is almost the first step in deciding which approach will be most successful & best suited to you.

    This is an important point that I would second.

    It is ultimately about what suits the individual. By all means, learn from what others are doing but always bear in mind and understand what you like. Ask yourself how frequently you can or want to be checking your holds, what level of risk you are comfortable with etc.

    Then when you know this, follow that path. There are a lot of people who will argue the case for the trades they are making out of their own self interest, but before you start blindly copying anyone it is important to know what works for you.

    When you are doing something that suits your personality type, you will also feel more in control and you're better positioned to ride out the bumps in the road.

    I have had to resist temptation a couple of times recently. I can see massive opportunities in certain parts of the market right now but I am keeping most of my money tied up in premium dividend winners where there is more liquidity as there will come a time when I need it again in the real world.



  • I think as you learn the game most will naturally become more passive. When I started I just wanted to trade, trade, trade. As you build your port, sell your port, rebuild again you learn and become more patient.

    @Geronimo159387 said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    I see many suggesting holding 20 or less players but this is far too risky an approach for me as I believe in the principle of diversity (2%/player maximum as a general rule), even if it means slightly lower potential returns, my portfolio has just about doubled in value in 2 years, so I'm not complaining or changing my strategy.

    I had loads of players when I started and it was too many too soon and I IS'd many that I should have held. Haaland, Rashford etc all who I bought between £5 -£6. Also only having 10 shares in each player wasn't really a good stratergy. I reduced my port to 20 and built up shares in them, but as I learn I feel comfortable buying more players. So I agree with @Geronimo159387 in that a larger port is a good thing when you have got a grip on some fundamentals.



  • Yup I hate the day to day bullshit, dont need the stress of trying to catch every penny.

    I pick young prospects for CA and just leave them to run their course. Once in a blue moon I might be a little bit more hands on if I feel I want to get rid of someone. Other than that tho, I just leave them to it untill my planned exit shows itself.



  • @Geronimo159387 You and me sound like chalk and cheese lol

    I couldnt invest 2% (unless we where talking 2% of 50k), I would see the investment as to small and not worth the time.

    Backing a winner poorly pisses me off worse than a loss lol.

    125% ROI but £10 invested lol.... the thought of that makes me want to cry



  • @Baydog Most people are their own worst enemy, they see there port drop a couple percent and panic and sell.
    Its a tough one but balls of steel really help in this game, my ports in a nose dive right now, but I know its just money being moved about into the top end of the market for the div update, once I think its near the bottem, Ill throw loads of cheap bids in for all my players I want to top up.



  • @Kanzz said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    Its a tough one but balls of steel really help in this game, my ports in a nose dive right now,

    If only you had a diversified portfolio!! As you say plenty of trading cycles on FI but if you put everything on one of them at the wrong time it can take 6 months to recover the lost ground, which is why I to prefer cover most bases, so whilst I might lose on transfer targets, my PB players rise or top end players rise whilst lower end fall. Whatever happens hopefully my portfolio is resilient enough to come through relatively unscathed.



  • @Kanzz said in Experiences of switching to a more passive FI strategy?:

    @Baydog Most people are their own worst enemy, they see there port drop a couple percent and panic and sell.
    Its a tough one but balls of steel really help in this game, my ports in a nose dive right now, but I know its just money being moved about into the top end of the market for the div update, once I think its near the bottem, Ill throw loads of cheap bids in for all my players I want to top up.

    That's the same way I see it.. Fortunately I am someone who tends to learn from their mistakes. FOMO can be the worst enemy of the impulsive (I am ADHD and impulsive behaviour is a trait). If I watch the market too much I start having way too many ideas, so I very rarely watch the ticker.. And even when FOMO kicks in I don't have FI on my phone, so I have to fire up the laptop to buy and sell - and by the time it has loaded the FOMO is over anyway 😂

    Experience makes a huge difference. Buying players on the slide feels counter-intuitive, but once you've seen things enough times it becomes almost second nature trying to buy the players that people don't want right now.

    The market is doing well so it feels like my port should be going up, but I am well aware that many of the players I am buying are not going to rise for a month or two. With a diverse port it all evens out. The rises are often not as spectacular, but neither are the drops...

    Timing on selling is still a big weakness of mine. I have regretted not selling many players when my mind was telling me to keep and my gut was telling me to sell... I prefer long trades so selling isn't often in my mindset, but I am pretty confident that I could change my entire port every 3 months and do pretty well (certainly in normal times with normal cycles anyway).



  • @Geronimo159387 Thankfully and hopefully it wont take that long.

    As much as my port is built apon young talent, they come from all walks of life lol, so usually atleast some of them bounce back quick enough.

    The last time think its was about a month of 2 before it all balanced out again. Im waiting on the transfer window at this point. I cant complain to much tho, had a good few months of constant growth, so only normal for it to go back down again for a bit.

    The trick I find is to ignore the £'s lost and work out the % lost, you start to panic when you realise your ports dropped a good few hundred £'s but calm down once you realise its less than 2% of the port worth lol



  • @Baydog I can be quite impulsive myself but ive learned to control it, especially on FI. However I hate the day to day shit so I dont even look at it nowdays. Once apon a time I used to check the app every 5 minutes checking player prices etc, as Ive grew to understand the platform better Ive moved away from that and just leave them to it for the most part.

    It does make you cry seeing money pour into the index and seeing your port drop lol, however give these people another month or two and they will prob chase the profit and move it back into the young talent. Im not that bothered about chasing after every penny, but im glad that there is people who are like that as they will no doubt move their money back into my holds chassing after that profit.

    Thankfully with my "playstyle", I have a very simple and clear exit point, transfer window, once its announced they are moving, I wait till peak and decide if I wanna cash out or hold.
    Works a charm, or it did before the changes, so lets see how we get on now.



  • I've had a Fantasy Football approach. I pick players that I believe are top players and that suit the game (in other words, get high PB and/or media attention).

    In fantasy football, players will have good weeks and bad weeks, but the top players will come out good in the end the majority of the time.

    There's always a few cheaper buys in there that I felt were better than their value and I trade those, but still only mid-term (1-6 months) where I wait and see if they reach their potential value and then sell. When I want to get rid of someone, I usually just wait until they have a really good game and sell on the rise.

    The majority of mine are long term holds of good PB players. No day-to-day trading or interest in +/- 2-3% changes and I'm about 115% up in 2 years.

    At the moment, I struggle to find new players to buy and tend to buy more of what I have. There's quite a large number of young players that have appeared, but IPO's are near non-existent and are generally done wrong (I think a blind auction would be better than the current in/out method that everyone does... although the lack of instant sell seems to have calmed today's IPOs).

    So... at the moment, I'm wondering to invest more or not, but with the news of dividend rises... this is probably the time to put another big chunk in.


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