What would you have done?



  • With the recent review, everyone is all stirred up. What would you have done if you had your way?
    Try and keep it "fair".

    I thought this would have been "fair" and cause the market to keep on moving.

    MB / 1 Place -8p, 2 Place -4p, 3 Place -2p, 4 Place -1p

    GK / Fine as is

    Regular PB / Gold position 12p and media 5p, Silver position 8p and media 4p, Bronze position 4p media 3p, star man untouched.

    TOTM, 1 place-4p,2 place-3p,3 place-2p,4 place-1p , Gk - 2p

    I feel that if they did something like that, the people would be singing praises of FI and the market would be zooming EVERYWHERE. Well maybe not the lower end, they are still in a bad situation I guess, but most would have been happy imo.



  • FI don't want what traders really want, which is tiered PB on match days. That would increase their payouts. So the compromise would not be TOTM, but Team of the WEEK. Keep the same dividend payouts as of the announcement, so that it remains "sensible".

    TOTW would truely be a game changer, bringing value nearly to the whole market. There would be continuous liquidity. No artificial market stimulation would be needed.



  • @Kanzz said in What would you have done?:

    With the recent review, everyone is all stirred up. What would you have done if you had your way?

    I would have...

    • Not boosted MB at all this time

    • Boosted Silver and Bronze even if it's just by 1p

    • Increased IPD's to 2p

    Then

    • Brought all changes in at the start of next season (Sense of structure is very important.)

    • Had at the very least some TOTM GUI mockups, to show people how they will be tracking TOTM.

    • Put out comparison graphics for last season, detailing who would have won each month, showing the impact of the changes. (They did this last year and it went down very well.)

    I think they could have sold it slightly better too. Why isn't there a glossy Apple style presentation for these things rather than just a bunch of text for folk to work through? Absolutely still put the text out for folk to digest in there own time, but make the presentation and give it some personality, so that people can see what you're trying to achieve. If done right, this can serve a broader marketing purpose.

    I'd have used Bruno as the example to sell people on it. Bruno's last 3 scores would almost certainly land him in the TOTM but he didn't win any PB for those 3 scores and this way, it's like Bruno holders get a second chance to pick up a dividend, which is a signature part of FI's brand when you think about it.

    The main USP of FI, is that in traditional sports betting, if the player you bet on to score, doesn't score... you lose your money... but in FI, if your player has a bad week, there's always next week... Well now, even if he doesn't win PB for a month, he could still win a TOTM dividend, so it's a direct extension of their 'second chance' philosophy.

    Got a bit long winded towards the end there...



  • @Dan-The-Man Its understandable, its not a simple subject. However it is a important one, as dividends are the very life blood of the platform. Without them shares are just virtual stamps.



  • @Londoner I actually see your point, TOTW would be a fair compromise.

    Not a massive boost to PB or media, but It would be enough divs to keep people intrested. FI still save money, but punters still get a sweet pot.



  • I like that GK have been added and I really like the TOTM idea.Tiered PB would have been unbelievable but we have been told over and over it wouldn’t happen if something had been done to stimulate the lower end of the market I think that’s all that’s missing and something as easy as putting IPD up to 3p but shortening it to 15days would mean some great pay outs for lower players if you do your homework,it would look like a massive increase but really wouldn’t cost that much more because of the shorter timeframe,I don’t have the figures obviously but I’m sure it would pay mostly for itself with all the extra commission from the extra trading it would cause.



  • If FI would have done everything they did except adding the goalkeeper PB I’d be happy. If they were intent in making a major change like GK Pb that has adversely affected the market already reeling from withdrawal of IS then it should’ve been announced to come in in 12 months’ time.

    Seems FI have managed to damage the lower/mid market with their IS changes and now the top end with the GK changes. They can’t afford to keep passing people off and grow the market at the same time.



  • @Kanzz I would’ve made media 6-4-2 and 5p on match day. Added 1p to silver and bronze including the star on those days as having the star the same as positional just looks better.
    TOTM would be 10-5-2. No GK’s.
    GK’s isn’t a dividend increase, it’s a new win mechanic that’s traders are paying for now.



  • When you look at the trading around a one or two game bronze in the past. Now there isn’t any.
    It’s all a bit pointless, no volume of trading and nobody interested in the 2p.



  • @Mr-Atouba said in What would you have done?:

    When you look at the trading around a one or two game bronze in the past. Now there isn’t any.
    It’s all a bit pointless, no volume of trading and nobody interested in the 2p.

    All money is still going into keepers right now mate.

    Look at the state of the top 200 risers list, its dead.



  • @ScouseSte said in What would you have done?:

    @Mr-Atouba said in What would you have done?:

    When you look at the trading around a one or two game bronze in the past. Now there isn’t any.
    It’s all a bit pointless, no volume of trading and nobody interested in the 2p.

    All money is still going into keepers right now mate.

    Look at the state of the top 200 risers list, its dead.

    That has no relevance to the fact that there’s no matchday trading, particularly on bronze days.
    Remember the days when you used to buy 10 days in advance of a bronze knowing you’d sell on the day and make 5-10%.
    Tuppence pb prizes in this market now is a waste of time.



  • @Mr-Atouba

    Yea I agree to an extent.
    But also look at the teams involved.

    The best one, Real Madrid, only have a few games left and are probably going to get knocked out of the champions league by City. No one worth buying into last night. Especially not when this bloody keeper gold rush continues!


  • Banned

    The problem they have is they keep making bad decision after bad decision and NONE of those decisions are to do with dividends or ingame stuff and EVERYTHING to do with communication.

    So the two big things I would have done (and this can be linked to EVERY communication they make) are:

    Instead of saying 'IS is an integral part of FI and we cannot get rid of it' I would have said 'whilst IS is a part of what we do, as a company we can't keep taking on the risk of bets not paying off. So IS will be removed but when we go to a ME it wil back in the form or bids. These bids will come from users. Should the users not offer a price, the share will have no IS'. This should have been said TWELVE months ago, giving everyone a fair chance to get out at a level they were happy with and to stop taking on bets based on a decent cash out option.
    Nothing would change, we would still be in the same position, but everyone would be happy and they would have money to splash about to keep things ticking over'.

    Instead of 'rockets and promises of a £1B market' I would have said 'Covid-19 has been hard on all businesses and we are no exception. However, we would like to give back to you what we can, so we will be reviewing the dividend table and you can expect a very small increase for now'. Result, people would be over the moon with 30% increase instead of pulling out because of it.

    It really is that simple. Stop talking about notifications on and rockets for stupid £20k cash drops, stop over-promising. Stop announcements of an announcement of an announcement and then missing the agreed publication of an announcement.

    Whoever is in change of communications is not fit for their job and as CEO, Cole HAS to take the blame for this.

    Stop over promising and under delivering and start under promising and over delivering. Cause it is fucking up a good product.

    (Oh and do a massive bonus to get everything moving now, get people out of shit holds and having money to spend elsewhere on the index. It would also remove the problem of the sell engine coming in and racing to the bottom as people would be comfortable in their holds and not just waiting for a spike to get out on. I mean MASSIVE, like bigger than ever, 30% deposit bonus if that is what it takes. This is the riskiest time of FI's existence and what they do now could make or break it. IMO now is the time they gamble and go large).

    The sad thing is, all this was entirely predictable. I was bullied off the forums for having my say, all of which is now coming true. I don't know who the fuck is advising them but they need someone in who understands the market properly.



  • @MrWh1te said in What would you have done?:

    Instead of 'rockets and promises of a £1B market' I would have said 'Covid-19 has been hard on all businesses and we are no exception. However, we would like to give back to you what we can, so we will be reviewing the dividend table and you can expect a very small increase for now'. Result, people would be over the moon with 30% increase instead of pulling out because of it.

    It really is that simple. Stop talking about notifications on and rockets for stupid £20k cash drops, stop over-promising. Stop announcements of an announcement of an announcement and then missing the agreed publication of an announcement.

    As a marketing man, I can't tell you how much I disagree with that.

    I fully understand your sentiment... and there's plenty of folk who would agree with you but if you want fomo to go into over drive, you make bold statements and set bold targets. That way, people spend big from the initial excitement, then people see the upward trend and the fomo kicks in, so it eventually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

    It's why the likes of Floyd 'Money' Mayweather and Conner McGregor alway talk up their wealth, even before they were rich. It's why events "sell out" on day one... even though they hardly ever actually sell out... they just say it and hold ticket back... Money, goes to money.

    The YouTubers who earn the most money, are the ones who talk about money. Perception becomes reality. It's the same reason Boris promoted that £350m on a bus, it's the same reason Trump made building a wall his centre piece. Big bold statements that are credible enough for the right amount of people to buy into.

    And when people are putting their money in... they want growth... and safety, they don't want... "We're having a tough year" could anything be more scary...


  • Banned

    @Dan-The-Man
    As a 'literally looking at the market and how it reacts' man, I couldnt tell you how much I disagree with you.

    This is completely different. With the likes of Mayweather, they can talk it up and then demand more money and that works for that.

    This is our 'investment/money/gamble'. No-one gives a shit if AC gets rich, all we care about is that our money is safe.
    They keep talking up FI, and in return our ports keep dropping.

    It is the same with stocks and shares. People want steady growth. They dont want ambitious targets that then keep missing their targets.

    It is the difference between marketing theory, and reality.



  • I posted a table on the old Twitters here of what I expected it to be along the lines of: https://twitter.com/FootballArgos/status/1280965578132512768?s=19

    I was very wrong! I'm one of the few who seems ok with existing Gold day payments so suggested upping Bronze and Silver so it would be 4/6/8p across the days. (On the basis of retaining the ongoing "moving the goalposts" promotion. )

    Triple media everyday (could have been 3/2/1p for non-match days) would have been good, and give more value to transfer targets etc.

    Doubling IPDs was probably necessary to get the lower end moving. Or doubling to sixty days instead.

    TOTM is a good idea but with AC publicly blunting tiered PB, it felt like it came at the wrong time. Same with GK divs but that's much more understandable, should have happened years ago!



  • @Dan-The-Man said in What would you have done?:

    As a marketing man,

    Clever marketing can sell anything once but to build a successful business you need to retain, grow & satisfy both your existing customers whilst simultaneously recruiting more, those existing customers are not just a valuable asset but most often also the best recruiting sergeants. Specifically on FI they have already said they want a £1bn market capitalisation (approx 8x current size) this means growing the market by both clever marketing but also responsible win mechanisms giving customers value bets, the "new" dividend payouts are insufficient to drive that growth & will not last until the next scheduled review without increases IMO. If they do they will severely hamper & retard that potential growth, as huge swathes of the market are suffering a prolonged liquidity squeeze, after FI backed IS was removed, the announcement has failed to give that any reason to change.

    On communications they have a woeful record of incorrect payouts, telling the time, promising one thing & delivering another, most of us would be satisfied with 2 improvements; 1. clear, timely, honest, accurate & reliable communication channel & 2. Certainty - only announce significant changes (Matrix, dividend reviews etc), ideally once a season in the Summer break.

    GK's & TOTM are welcome additions but dividends drive growth & the increases are woefully inadequate for what the platform needs to achieve it's ambition.



  • A simple new dividend table with a 50% increase across the board would have been enough to generate much needed optimism. None of this dividend increase with strings attached kind of bs. Keep all the promos and whatnot in anticipation to the next season if need to further stimulate the market.

    GK introduction is very poorly timed to say the least. To introduce such thing into a starving market is only going to starve the market even further. How on earth did they not foresee this is very worrying

    TOTM is a good addition but wait until the market settles and then gives us this sort of bonuses. Everyone would be raving about it in different circumstances

    As it is the market speaks volumes, its a gold day and there is little to no trading and I hope they've woken up this morning looked at their stats and realise what a cock up they've made. My other worry is that they just look at it and say 'ah well it will pick up again in a few weeks'



  • @Geronimo159387 said in What would you have done?:

    @Dan-The-Man said in What would you have done?:

    On FI they have already said they want a £1bn market capitalisation (approx 8x current size) this means growing the market by both clever marketing but also responsible win mechanisms giving customers value bets, the "new" dividend payouts are insufficient to drive that growth & will not last until the next scheduled review without increases IMO.

    dividends drive growth & the increases are woefully inadequate for what the platform needs to achieve it's ambition.

    They didn't mean £1b over night. It's going to take years...

    When I joined Christmas 2018, Pogba's price tag was £14, within 3 months, he went from £14 to £25 in time for the share split.

    Sancho is already at £14. So, if they had increased the top end to drive the kind of growth you were hoping for, players prices would have rocketed... but they can't share split every year because the folk who bought 1500 Pogba at £25, will now have 4500 Pogba... and with another share split, they'd have 13,500 Pogba.

    You said "responsible win mechanisms"... and I think that's exactly what they've done. They've increased the pay out for us, boosted the middle end... slowed down growth at the top by making the bottom end more attractive, delaying the need for a share split. Bets expire within 3 years and the longer in to the cycle before they split again, the fewer cases of 13,500 Pogba there will be....


  • Banned

    @Dan-The-Man said in What would you have done?:

    @Geronimo159387 said in What would you have done?:

    @Dan-The-Man said in What would you have done?:

    On FI they have already said they want a £1bn market capitalisation (approx 8x current size) this means growing the market by both clever marketing but also responsible win mechanisms giving customers value bets, the "new" dividend payouts are insufficient to drive that growth & will not last until the next scheduled review without increases IMO.

    dividends drive growth & the increases are woefully inadequate for what the platform needs to achieve it's ambition.

    They didn't mean £1b over night. It's going to take years...

    Cant find the post. Didnt they say within a year? Or something?


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