Some things I'd like to see....



  • Full order books so the interaction of market demand & supply could determine a players TRUE price, eradicating sales queues FOREVER.

    Introduce NASDAQ IT so the servers NEVER get overwhelmed & crash again, allowing IPO's, announcements, bonus's to run smoothly despite high traffic.

    MB finally fixed, after the never ending review, then consistently & fairly adjudicated so I NEVER have to read "will XYZ current MB be removed?"

    After the above necessary changes a LONG PERIOD of STABILITY in platform framework & win mechanics, allowing payouts to increase but not altering bets.

    Professional, competent & efficient operation of every aspect of platform administration, with any errors or mistakes quickly rectified.

    Adam Cole promoted to Chairman & his twitter account deleted PERMANENTLY.

    Checking FI in 2-3 years time to see market capitalisation hit £1bn+.

    Finally a happy, polite & courteous forum (& twitter) community where disagreements & alternative POV are a source of positive discussion.

    I really don't think that's too much to ask for.



  • You want Adam Cole promoted?



  • Sounds like a solid plan to me.
    Throw in a deposit bonus (or pref div increase!) to coincide with full OB and we will be rocking.



  • @Hotspur said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    You want Adam Cole promoted?

    TBF he's done a great job getting a good idea from down the pub to this stage of it's development but now needs to take a well earned break, Honorary Chairman?



  • Yes we need sell orders ASAP but they have to do something to cushion the blow of seeing our profit totals take a massive hit. And good communications are essential.



  • @Hotspur said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    Yes we need sell orders ASAP but they have to do something to cushion the blow of seeing our profit totals take a massive hit

    Growing the market, increased demand is what will drive prices higher & not just soften the blow but make us all very wealthy, provided we hold our nerve.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Hotspur said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    You want Adam Cole promoted?

    TBF he's done a great job getting a good idea from down the pub to this stage of it's development but now needs to take a well earned break, Honorary Chairman?

    Absolutely he's done a terrific job. He needs help to take the platform on to the next level though, and I don't mean more directors from the bookies.



  • Are you in favour of of a pure demand / supply form of order book? So no 'market buy' option remains and no 'market sell' option remains - literally just "Buy" (set by lowest price someone is willing to sell [order] for) and "Sell" (the highest price anyone is willing to buy [order] for).



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    Are you in favour of of a pure demand / supply form of order book? So no 'market buy' option remains and no 'market sell' option remains - literally just "Buy" (set by lowest price someone is willing to sell [order] for) and "Sell" (the highest price anyone is willing to buy [order] for).

    Eventually most definitely; whilst accepting a hybrid might be necessary in the transition period, supported by a combination of Market Makers & FI action, so as to restrict price volatility until sufficient market depth can be naturally achieved.

    A £1bn market shouldn't need any artificial support, outwith some temporary backup stop limits for times of extreme uncertainty.



  • @Baydog I don’t like that idea of OB, sounds like it could be fairly volatile, I like the market the way it, just needs stability after the mess FI have caused.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    Are you in favour of of a pure demand / supply form of order book? So no 'market buy' option remains and no 'market sell' option remains - literally just "Buy" (set by lowest price someone is willing to sell [order] for) and "Sell" (the highest price anyone is willing to buy [order] for).

    Eventually most definitely; whilst accepting a hybrid might be necessary in the transition period, supported by a combination of Market Makers & FI action, so as to restrict price volatility until sufficient market depth can be naturally achieved.

    A £1bn market shouldn't need any artificial support, outwith some temporary backup stop limits for times of extreme uncertainty.

    The prospect of that system terrifies me in the current market... Somewhere down the line I think it is inevitable, but I'd say user numbers and general sentiment would need to be significantly higher than it is now for the transition to be acceptable



  • So am I right in thinking that OB and the like will make the shares more like actual company shares, bought from investors as opposed to the company itself apart from on IPO (and also when demand outstrips supply?)

    I think I'm right in thinking those prices (of real stocks and shares) rely more on dividend/potential return, which would mean in our world, players with little or no chance of dividend return and no ability to IS back to FI would be next to worthless?



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    The prospect of that system terrifies me in the current market... Somewhere down the line I think it is inevitable, but I'd say user numbers and general sentiment would need to be significantly higher than it is now for the transition to be acceptable

    True but growing the market is the answer, increased demand is what will drive prices higher, the MASSIVE benefit that FI have is that they possess a potentially world beating product with which to do that, even if they do sometimes appear to making a total pig's ear of their efforts to achieve it. The platform is 4 or 5 times bigger than when I joined just a couple of years ago, so it's perfectly possible provided FI don't squander the opportunity!



  • @Marksandygill said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    So am I right in thinking that OB and the like will make the shares more like actual company shares, bought from investors as opposed to the company itself apart from on IPO (and also when demand outstrips supply?)
    I think I'm right in thinking those prices (of real stocks and shares) rely more on dividend/potential return, which would mean in our world, players with little or no chance of dividend return and no ability to IS back to FI would be next to worthless?

    Yes to the first & possibly to the second; Dividends SHOULD ALWAYS drive prices, what price should a player that will conceivably return nothing during his entire career be worth? Given their total return will be close to ZERO what would you pay & why should FI pay any more?

    Remember the perceived wisdom was that GK's were worthless, just look at them now. Anyone over 30, again worthless, Antonio returned 10p Gold day Mid + 8p Star + 4p IPD's = 22p in one game on Saturday, yet could be bought for 25p via ME in the days before, as the market deemed him "too old". Value for any player will (& always should have been) the discounted net present value of their future returns, obviously that exact figure is determined by luck, judgment & opinion, as his career is uncertain as is how those performances will interact with others & the performance matrix everytime he plays.

    So worthless is very much a subjective concept, as proven by the frankly ridiculous "youth bubble" prices ppl are prepared to pay based simply on age (they have got many more years playing left to continue not to win dividends so MUST be worth £4/5/6!).



  • @Geronimo159387 risk vs reward then, the safety of an expensive player who regularly returns PB and MB against a cheap player who might get lucky and return almost 100% in one day!



  • @Marksandygill said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    So am I right in thinking that OB and the like will make the shares more like actual company shares, bought from investors as opposed to the company itself apart from on IPO (and also when demand outstrips supply?)

    I think I'm right in thinking those prices (of real stocks and shares) rely more on dividend/potential return, which would mean in our world, players with little or no chance of dividend return and no ability to IS back to FI would be next to worthless?

    I'm not entirely sure - I suspect we will see a hybrid type set up where we can still buy from the market, whilst the OB aspect sits beneath the market value... Eventually I think it could be the model where FI removes themselves from the market completely (and takes their money from IPO's and commission alone), where it will be full order book system like FS. I'd prefer the hybrid version to be honest, as I think it would mean a lot more stability in values



  • @Marksandygill said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Geronimo159387 risk vs reward then, the safety of an expensive player who regularly returns PB and MB against a cheap player who might get lucky and return almost 100% in one day!

    I am going for a decent mix of both types.. Lots of solid players with some wildcard thrown in.. What is always important to remember when you are buying, is that someone eventually has to buy that players off you - so unless they are paying for themselves in divs over three years then there is a certain level of risk.. I'd expect the proven players to be a lot safer in terms of trading out, but at the moment there is a land of opportunity on goalkeepers - so even the safe PB and MB players are feeling the pinch



  • I just want some clarity

    Now that there are Tier 1 and have been forced into publishing a divs table annually how much flexibility do they actually have now. We are all assuming that if the market crashes again like it did last Sept/Oct they can just increase the divs and it will be fine, but can they do this ? have their hands been tied by regulations or not. I think that we as traders have a right to know if there really is a lever that can be pulled in the event of an emergency.

    Where is this road map they keep promising?

    Where is the information on the media review which they promised in July we are currently half way through the month and nothing.

    When is Nasdaq comming how far is it away, give us an actual date, so we know how much longer we have to put up with their shit tech.

    What are they doing regarding sell orders, they are building the system now they must know what they are building, so why not release the details, I don't care if they are not going to implement it until Oct as seems likely with the extension of commission free bids but for God sake we need to now what sort of system they are going for, be it full order books some sort of halfway house. We need to know so that we can assess the likely implications of in plenty of time, given that they have put the market into free fall buy their own short commings I think that is the least they can do. Yeah people might think fuck this I am off, but at least we know where the market is then.

    I am all for a transition phase it's a necessary part of the growth of the product, I am happy to give it time to sort it's self out but the lack of and bad commination, along with the chucking out of curve balls like gks for no apparent reason is bang out of order. As for them turning round saying well you asked for them, did we? who did? , I didn't see any out cry for it, and if we did why not publish some of that feedback they got from the survey, instead they drop it on us with 15 mins notice. Same with tiered pb. This time people were asking for it but for years we been told an outright no chance of this happening, for them to turn round now and say we are now going to listen to you and soften our stance on that only weeks after comming out with a hard no when asked that direct question. Even if they said something like we will never do a straight tired pb but we are looking at ways to try and link this with a sort of long term divided why we have said we have been looking to do for a while, more details with the div announcement next month or words to that effect.

    It's ridiculous and people wonder why fi struggle to on board whales. I mean would you put 2 million on a platform that has said one thing for years and then suddenly about turns in the opposite direction in the space of a month and doesn't bother to communicate even an incling that there was a change in heart in the offing.

    On the plus side, after sell orders, there doesn't seem to be that much more that can be changed, only the pb matrix next summer, and at least we know it's comming, you think it would just be a tweak or two but after this debacle they will probably overhaul the whole thing again. Would be good AC will be kind enough to give us a whole hour notice next time, there's a good chap

    Perhaps he should change his sign off to backwards and downwards next time he makes a statement.

    Sorry I sound really bitter, I am not really, but I guess the lesson learned it don't bet prior to any announcement (my bad) no matter what noises seem to be coming out of FI as you clearly can't trust the information comming out and even if the information was good to begin with it now seems that FI will change their minds at the drop of a hat.

    All in all its not good enough, questions need and should be asked, and I think to maintain customer confidence, FI need to come back with some seriously good answers!

    Rant over



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    I'd prefer the hybrid version to be honest, as I think it would mean a lot more stability in values

    Market depth is what will give price stability, which I completely agree is very important, the current price volatility is due to an extremely thin market, so as few as a couple of hundred in sales can drop the price 30%. The previous FI backed IS system was so popular because of the market depth it provide, enabling selling thousands to be possible & still only dropping the price 1p every 600/900. The current buyer provided IS is so poor for selling due to next to no depth, why would any buyer offer a better price currently? as the seller has no options other than hold or sell to a low ball bid.

    Full order books will redistribute that market power more evenly between buyers & sellers, so popular players will rise in prices, as demand>supply & those out of fashion will fall in price as supply>demand - functioning just like a PROPER market should.



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    so unless they are paying for themselves in divs over three years then there is a certain level of risk.

    Actually you can refresh the 3 year hold via selling & rebuying so they only need to return their value over their entire career - if they return more they are under priced & less then over priced, which is where the risk (& skill/judgement in modelling career return vs current price) comes into play.


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