Some things I'd like to see....



  • I just want some clarity

    Now that there are Tier 1 and have been forced into publishing a divs table annually how much flexibility do they actually have now. We are all assuming that if the market crashes again like it did last Sept/Oct they can just increase the divs and it will be fine, but can they do this ? have their hands been tied by regulations or not. I think that we as traders have a right to know if there really is a lever that can be pulled in the event of an emergency.

    Where is this road map they keep promising?

    Where is the information on the media review which they promised in July we are currently half way through the month and nothing.

    When is Nasdaq comming how far is it away, give us an actual date, so we know how much longer we have to put up with their shit tech.

    What are they doing regarding sell orders, they are building the system now they must know what they are building, so why not release the details, I don't care if they are not going to implement it until Oct as seems likely with the extension of commission free bids but for God sake we need to now what sort of system they are going for, be it full order books some sort of halfway house. We need to know so that we can assess the likely implications of in plenty of time, given that they have put the market into free fall buy their own short commings I think that is the least they can do. Yeah people might think fuck this I am off, but at least we know where the market is then.

    I am all for a transition phase it's a necessary part of the growth of the product, I am happy to give it time to sort it's self out but the lack of and bad commination, along with the chucking out of curve balls like gks for no apparent reason is bang out of order. As for them turning round saying well you asked for them, did we? who did? , I didn't see any out cry for it, and if we did why not publish some of that feedback they got from the survey, instead they drop it on us with 15 mins notice. Same with tiered pb. This time people were asking for it but for years we been told an outright no chance of this happening, for them to turn round now and say we are now going to listen to you and soften our stance on that only weeks after comming out with a hard no when asked that direct question. Even if they said something like we will never do a straight tired pb but we are looking at ways to try and link this with a sort of long term divided why we have said we have been looking to do for a while, more details with the div announcement next month or words to that effect.

    It's ridiculous and people wonder why fi struggle to on board whales. I mean would you put 2 million on a platform that has said one thing for years and then suddenly about turns in the opposite direction in the space of a month and doesn't bother to communicate even an incling that there was a change in heart in the offing.

    On the plus side, after sell orders, there doesn't seem to be that much more that can be changed, only the pb matrix next summer, and at least we know it's comming, you think it would just be a tweak or two but after this debacle they will probably overhaul the whole thing again. Would be good AC will be kind enough to give us a whole hour notice next time, there's a good chap

    Perhaps he should change his sign off to backwards and downwards next time he makes a statement.

    Sorry I sound really bitter, I am not really, but I guess the lesson learned it don't bet prior to any announcement (my bad) no matter what noises seem to be coming out of FI as you clearly can't trust the information comming out and even if the information was good to begin with it now seems that FI will change their minds at the drop of a hat.

    All in all its not good enough, questions need and should be asked, and I think to maintain customer confidence, FI need to come back with some seriously good answers!

    Rant over



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    I'd prefer the hybrid version to be honest, as I think it would mean a lot more stability in values

    Market depth is what will give price stability, which I completely agree is very important, the current price volatility is due to an extremely thin market, so as few as a couple of hundred in sales can drop the price 30%. The previous FI backed IS system was so popular because of the market depth it provide, enabling selling thousands to be possible & still only dropping the price 1p every 600/900. The current buyer provided IS is so poor for selling due to next to no depth, why would any buyer offer a better price currently? as the seller has no options other than hold or sell to a low ball bid.

    Full order books will redistribute that market power more evenly between buyers & sellers, so popular players will rise in prices, as demand>supply & those out of fashion will fall in price as supply>demand - functioning just like a PROPER market should.



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    so unless they are paying for themselves in divs over three years then there is a certain level of risk.

    Actually you can refresh the 3 year hold via selling & rebuying so they only need to return their value over their entire career - if they return more they are under priced & less then over priced, which is where the risk (& skill/judgement in modelling career return vs current price) comes into play.



  • @Chris-C said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    We are all assuming that if the market crashes again like it did last Sept/Oct they can just increase the divs and it will be fine, but can they do this ?

    Yes it's their business not the GC's so as long as they are transparent & treat customers fairly they can revise dividends whenever they want. Ideally the platform needs stability, so annually gives this but is a MINIMUM requirement so I doubt many would complain if they were to INCREASE every 6 months instead.

    Much of your rant I agree with but it would have been a lot easier to explain if FI understood what clear, transparent & honest communication was!!



  • Also in regards to the Nasdaq platform, I wonder if they are just there to provide that or if they are providing other help/advice on growing FI? I mean you couldn't ask for help from any company better placed on growing a product like FI than the people at Nasdaq?!



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    The current buyer provided IS is so poor for selling due to next to no depth, why would any buyer offer a better price currently? as the seller has no options other than hold or sell to a low ball bid

    I completely agree with that - I think sell orders are absolutely vital to restore the parity... I am all for them being introduced - but I just don't want to see the full order book system dropped into place until the market is big enough to have the depth to resist huge fluctuations in values.

    I'd say with the hybrid model the market would function quite nicely - buyers would be competing against sellers beneath that market value price where someone can still buy from the market (in this situation the sell queue would still be removed I believe - you'd just set the value of your sale to the same as market value or below I assume?) I guess one of the issues would be that a players value could only really go up (being bought from market) and not down (would be traded amongst users but wouldn't drop in value as someone has to buy for them someone to sell) - that is basically the case now...

    What would you say are the main pros for the full OB system where market buy is taken away?



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Chris-C said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    We are all assuming that if the market crashes again like it did last Sept/Oct they can just increase the divs and it will be fine, but can they do this ?

    Yes it's their business not the GC's so as long as they are transparent & treat customers fairly they can revise dividends whenever they want. Ideally the platform needs stability, so annually gives this but I doubt many would complain if they were to INCREASE every 6 months instead.

    Much of your rant I agree with but it would have been a lot easier to explain if FI understood what clear, transparent & honest communication was!!

    Adam Cole
    ⬇️

    Of course, we’ll review our Dividend table annually and relative to Market growth.

    This above says to me they can increase when they want.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Chris-C said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    We are all assuming that if the market crashes again like it did last Sept/Oct they can just increase the divs and it will be fine, but can they do this ?

    Yes it's their business not the GC's so as long as they are transparent & treat customers fairly they can revise dividends whenever they want. Ideally the platform needs stability, so annually gives this but is a MINIMUM requirement so I doubt many would complain if they were to INCREASE every 6 months instead.

    Much of your rant I agree with but it would have been a lot easier to explain if FI understood what clear, transparent & honest communication was!!

    Perhaps FI could use the money saved by not offering IS to send its management team on some sort of course to teach them just that !



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    What would you say are the main pros for the full OB system where market buy is taken away?

    Clean, honest, transparent market clearing (so no queues) price determination, no artificial support or over inflated IPO prices off the back of it.

    Genuine market supply & demand, so prices DIRECTLY reflect market sentiment, with the only proviso being mentioned earlier, sufficient market depth is both necessary & essential to avoid wild price swings that would potentially destabilise market confidence unnecessarily.



  • @Hotspur i think what hes getting at is that he promoted out of his decision making role and lets a more professional business type call the shots for him



  • I think baydog's hybrid model idea would provide greater mental security and platform stability.

    I don't think there is enough money in the platform to have purely transparent pricing without panic sweeping the market and potentially killing it. The illusion of value is a powerful stabiliser, they should not play with it lightly.

    Would prefer the sell-side to be phased in with market buy, allow the order book to stabilise (to whatever extent it finds), and then remove market buy at some point, however why would FI remove their primary market and allow only a secondary market? 100% vs 2% as has been pointed out before.

    I've been disappointed by FI's recent decision making but can understand it. However if they don't do a % bonus promotion in conjunction with the introduction of sell orders, I will be horrified.



  • @Rocky-Raccoon said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    I don't think there is enough money in the platform to have purely transparent pricing without panic sweeping the market and potentially killing it. The illusion of value is a powerful stabiliser, they should not play with it lightly.

    That's a very important point & full OB's will need a transition period but market growth (towards the fabled £1bn & beyond) will provide the ultimate solution.



  • @Black-Wolf said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Hotspur i think what hes getting at is that he promoted out of his decision making role and lets a more professional business type call the shots for him

    like a president Emeritus



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Rocky-Raccoon said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    I don't think there is enough money in the platform to have purely transparent pricing without panic sweeping the market and potentially killing it. The illusion of value is a powerful stabiliser, they should not play with it lightly.

    That's a very important point & full OB's will need a transition period but market growth (towards the fabled £1bn & beyond) will provide the ultimate solution.

    I think that the point @Geronimo159387 and @Rocky-Raccoon make is vital for FI to understand.. It makes me very nervous that FI may believe they can just throw full OB's in to the current market - I certainly would not agree that the time is right... Once there is a larger user base etc I can see how it will be the natural progression



  • Well Well Well look what AC just posted, (also posting a TOTM leaderboard update daily):

    "We wanted to take the opportunity to provide some certainty on our roadmap going into the 20/21 Season and give clarity with respect to liquidity in the market.

    The ‘Offers’ element of order books will be in place within 6-8 weeks. Full NASDAQ integration will be live in September as the new football season heats up. The master plan takes us to fully functioning order books and a mature market supported by a number of established market makers acting as liquidity providers.
    The first of these new liquidity providers, LP001 is already active in the market under a formal arrangement, and committed to providing a significant volume of liquidity running into the £millions over the coming months.

    The result will be progressively tighter spreads and increased liquidity across the market at every price tier, including the vast majority of the lower end.

    In tandem with increased liquidity provision, we’re narrowing the 'Bid Zone' which will also have the effect of tightening spreads.

    With NASDAQ also comes an 'auction-based' IPO process meaning that Traders will determine IPO prices rather than us. The first IPOs in this format will go live in September 2020. We will also be publishing key parts of our product roadmap for 2020 and beyond in the coming weeks.
    We’re taking the platform we all love to the next level.
    We truly appreciate what an amazing and passionate community we have at Football Index and are always keen to hear your feedback and suggestions. We will be restarting our popular Trader panels online this month (not at the FI office to keep it COVID secure). To sign up, please stay tuned.

    So in summary, we’re transitioning to an even more fluid market with tighter spreads and liquidity provided by Traders, as well as established market makers: in short a mature, grown-up market. We are continually evolving towards this vision – onwards and upwards!"

    Full link: https://trade.footballindex.co.uk/marketupdate-20200713/





  • @Geronimo159387

    Blimey a professionally delivered and executed communication! What you thinking now in-terms of the order book set up we will see them adopt in 8 weeks?



  • @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    Blimey a professionally delivered and executed communication! What you thinking now in-terms of the order book set up we will see them adopt in 8 weeks?

    I can hardly believe it, as though they actually listen & then respond to customer feedback. OB's will still be in a transition phase & supported by MM's but I just hope they are fully prepared & this isn't a reactive response to the market unrest (NASDAQ involvement is very reassuring, if FI were launching it alone I would be petrified) but at face value great news IMO.



  • @Geronimo159387 said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    @Baydog said in Some things I'd like to see....:

    Blimey a professionally delivered and executed communication! What you thinking now in-terms of the order book set up we will see them adopt in 8 weeks?

    I can hardly believe it, as though they actually listen & then respond to customer feedback.

    It is like I am living in upside down world. Within the space of days my port is full of goalkeepers and now this!


Log in to reply