End of the road



  • That’s me done I started on here last October only put a couple of hundred in and topped up each month. I wad seeing increases every week and kept topping up each pay day. In the end I had deposited a total of £1500 and I was showing a paper profit of £298 pre dividend announcement. Since then I have dropped in value every week. I could not see how I was going to make money on the platform, so today I hit the button and IS the lot. I’ve taken a hit and I’m currently down about £90. I think the withdrawal of IS back to FI killed it for me. Admitted oh I had taken a few punts on low value players, but those punts were made safe in knowledge that I could sell Back to FI for a small loss. The removal of iS back to FI removes about 20% off the value of my port. I’m sure you can still make money on here but it’s not for me.

    All the best to you all. If anyone wants any Gerson, he’s the only player I have left. 30 shares with no sale value. Make me an offer and I could be out of the door fo good.

    Take care all.



  • @Sweetbagger Sad to hear it mate. Wasnt a great time to sell but whats done is done. Maybe you will feel differently once the transition to order books is complete in which case dont be afraid to come back and announce your return. See you in a couple of months mate 😉



  • Good luck, hope you find your place in the sun.



  • @Black-Wolf

    I just can't see how the next phase of order books makes this any better.

    The spreads are already too big to justify selling players... all the next phase does is allow us to list players even lower than the already giant spreads.

    If anything, it's going to make it even harder to sell players for their price, because people will just undercut... and then buyers will be looking for the undercut.



  • @Dan-The-Man surely if people were looking to sell they would have accepted the offers on their players that have been made already? I think sell orders allows people who want to sell to set a much more acceptable price for their players, therefore bringing spreads in?



  • @Dan-The-Man I deffo agree there will be lots of throat cutting, but thats like most of life.

    Atleast OB from what I understand will atleast give sellers some power back as they can atleast set their own price's, not saying they will sell but atleast we are getting somewhere lol

    .



  • @FI_Gump Nobody is selling at the insulting bids we see right now unless they NEED to, Id almost rather burn the shares than sell at a price thats cheaper than when I bought a year ago even tho the shares are in a decent % of profit.



  • @Dan-The-Man it results in less players being listed for sale at any one time meaning higher prices in the long run.



  • @Kanzz some are selling, just depends on the player, the bid price and the situation of the holder I think. You are right, some bids are low, but unfortunately we are in the off season, in a period of transition and in a global financial crisis. I think we have to accept it might take a little time for the platform to get going again but I have every confidence it will 👍



  • @FI_Gump said in End of the road:

    @Dan-The-Man surely if people were looking to sell they would have accepted the offers on their players that have been made already?

    Not if the offer isn't anywhere near the valuation.

    If you have £1,000 tied up in a player and you want to sell, you're not going to accept £400 in return are you?



  • @Dan-The-Man absolutely agree, but my point was that sell orders will improve this, not make spreads even worse as per your original point? You can maybe get out of that £1000 hold at £800 instead of £400 if you really want to get out?



  • @FI_Gump said in End of the road:

    @Dan-The-Man absolutely agree, but my point was that sell orders will improve this, not make spreads even worse as per your original point? You can maybe get out of that £1000 hold at £800 instead of £400 if you really want to get out?

    I know people keep saying that but I don't know what any of you are basing it on because it just doesn't ring true.

    Player X
    Buy Price: 70p
    Sell Price: 25p

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but forum logic seems to be that when Order Books are complete, I as the seller can list the player at 60p... and you as the buyer will see my 60p, realise you have an easy 10p and get in on the action.

    But in reality... the Buy Price will just change to 60p... and the Sell Price will be even lower... because if you were only willing to bid 25p to secure a 70p player, you aren't going to bid 30p to secure a 60p player, so you're going to bid 15p instead. Now, my 70p player has dropped to 15p.

    There's so many people saying Order Books will fix it, that I must be missing something and this is one of those times where I hope that I'm wrong.



  • @Dan-The-Man ok is that player 70p because no one has bought more and hes at peak price or was he £1 with a 30p sell queue.

    Its hard to say what happens in the first case because its all dependent on demand but if theres no sell queue and his peak price is 70p then no holders are planning on selling so why create a sell order if werent trying to sell him anyway so hos price doesnt move. You have a stagnant player until theres more demand

    If he has a 30p sell queue then 30p worth of holders are wanting to sell and theres a small demand because we have a bid price at 25p which the seller hasnt accepted, so now when sell orders come in those 30p worth of holders want to negotiate with those that have placed bids so they delist to place their offers. Now two things can happen here either they are all delisted in short period and the price shoots up and the guy with bid wants on board quicker so he raises his bid or the are delisted slowly and the offer price drops until a buyer starts to match them. Both scenarios end up in someone buying and some selling meaning the end result is less shares for sale meaning less traffic in the way for FI to mint new shares and prices start to climb

    As for your concern over lower bids being possible with the addition of orders this is where market makers really come into play. They will squeeze the spread to ensure bids stay competitive. No one is placing a bid for200@ 24p if theres visibly bids of 600@25p,26p,27p,28p, 29p and so one they will place bids to get to the front of the line



  • @Black-Wolf said in End of the road:

    @Dan-The-Man ok is that player 70p because no one has bought more and hes at peak price or was he £1 with a 30p sell queue.

    If he has a 30p sell queue then 30p worth of holders are wanting to sell and theres a small demand because we have a bid price at 25p which the seller hasnt accepted, so now when sell orders come in those 30p worth of holders want to negotiate with those that have placed bids so they delist to place their offers.

    Thanks for your explanation.

    How are you going to negotiate?

    You're going to list the player at 50p... the buyer is now going to see 50p as the new BUY PRICE... so why isn't he going to low ball you even further?

    Don't forget, when the time comes for him to sell this player, he's going to get low balled too, so he's not going to be in a rush to meet you in the middle.

    Any btw, when you list at 50p... Johnny over there who also wants out, is going to list at 49p, so that he can get out before you.



  • @Dan-The-Man if he has an offer in why run away if he clearly has some kind of interest in buying the player. Why bother tying money up in bids at all if you dont really want them to get matched. People bidding just now are ripping the pish because they know that they have full control. Once the seller is able to say what he would want then someone in amongst the bidders is going to try get a deal as low as a seller is willing to go. Reducing your bid further is counter productive and just like constantly jumping out of the queue to join back in at the back.



  • @Dan-The-Man said in End of the road:

    Any btw, when you list at 50p... Johnny over there who also wants out, is going to list at 49p, so that he can get out before you.

    As for this part yes this will happen as people want to leap frog others but there will come a point when a buyer accepts and the next bid above becomes available and as this continues the price climbs back up and if only a handful of sellers have been leap frogging each other and chased the price down from 70p to 49p then this creates a void in their wake between the available offers and the price at which FI is minting the new shares meaning a sudden jump in price if their offers get matched. Those 49p and 50p offers that have been matched are now worth as much as 70p because the best offer available is to buy straight from FI unless someone else creates another offer for less



  • @Black-Wolf said in End of the road:

    @Dan-The-Man if he has an offer in why run away if he clearly has some kind of interest in buying the player. Why bother tying money up in bids at all if you dont really want them to get matched. People bidding just now are ripping the pish because they know that they have full control. Once the seller is able to say what he would want then someone in amongst the bidders is going to try get a deal as low as a seller is willing to go. Reducing your bid further is counter productive and just like constantly jumping out of the queue to join back in at the back.

    Sequence of Events:

    • Seller 1 Lists Player X for sale at £1
    • Buyer 1 Bids 50p.
    • Seller 1 Relists at 75p.
    • Buyer 1 can't get it for 50p so walks away, bids on something else.
    • Buyer 2 see's Player X listed at 75p, bids 30p.

    The owners of Player X, enter full blown panic mode given that the lowest offer for their player is just 30p and some loon has dropped down to 75p.

    • Seller 2 Lists at 70p
    • Seller 3 Lists at 65p
    • Seller 4 Lists at 62p
    • Seller 5 Lists at 60p

    Buyer 2, isn't prepared to pay double his bid, especially as he's seeing Player X's price drop before his eyes, so walks away.

    • Buyer 3 see's the £1 player listed at 60p, bids 50p
    • Seller 5, tries to split the difference, relists at 55p
    • Buyer 3 agrees... the £1 player just sold for 55p.

    You've sold your £1 player for 55p... are you really going to reinvest that 55p?

    This is probably the nightmare scenario but it closes the spread slightly, so I'd imagine this is the kind of scenario you're thinking might happen, I just don't see why Buyer 3 would meet in the middle, knowing that when the time comes for him to get out, he's going to be in a similar position, not to mention the 4% fee for buy/sell.

    Either way, thanks for trying to explain it. I'll be sticking around to see how it works out... largely because selling players is almost impossible, so at least I'll get to see how it plays out.



  • @Dan-The-Man i think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective and not really considering a lot of things. For example if you use your logic of traders behaviour and apply it to the old system people would have only bought players as the picked up injuries, smart but actually the opposite of how most people behave. People were more likely to buy as a player rose and sell as he fell, not good trading but its how we behave sometimes. Just look at the number people saying they are selling up and leaving right now at the worst possible time, we dont see that during boom periods which is the best time to sell.

    What im saying is I understand your logic but its just not how people behave. Its how we expect them to act but its not how they will act



  • @Dan-The-Man said in End of the road:

    @Black-Wolf said in End of the road:

    @Dan-The-Man if he has an offer in why run away if he clearly has some kind of interest in buying the player. Why bother tying money up in bids at all if you dont really want them to get matched. People bidding just now are ripping the pish because they know that they have full control. Once the seller is able to say what he would want then someone in amongst the bidders is going to try get a deal as low as a seller is willing to go. Reducing your bid further is counter productive and just like constantly jumping out of the queue to join back in at the back.

    Sequence of Events:

    • Seller 1 Lists Player X for sale at £1
    • Buyer 1 Bids 50p.
    • Seller 1 Relists at 75p.
    • Buyer 1 can't get it for 50p so walks away, bids on something else.
    • Buyer 2 see's Player X listed at 75p, bids 30p.

    The owners of Player X, enter full blown panic mode given that the lowest offer for their player is just 30p and some loon has dropped down to 75p.

    • Seller 2 Lists at 70p
    • Seller 3 Lists at 65p
    • Seller 4 Lists at 62p
    • Seller 5 Lists at 60p

    Buyer 2, isn't prepared to pay double his bid, especially as he's seeing Player X's price drop before his eyes, so walks away.

    • Buyer 3 see's the £1 player listed at 60p, bids 50p
    • Seller 5, tries to split the difference, relists at 55p
    • Buyer 3 agrees... the £1 player just sold for 55p.

    You've sold your £1 player for 55p... are you really going to reinvest that 55p?

    This is probably the nightmare scenario but it closes the spread slightly, so I'd imagine this is the kind of scenario you're thinking might happen, I just don't see why Buyer 3 would meet in the middle, knowing that when the time comes for him to get out, he's going to be in a similar position, not to mention the 4% fee for buy/sell.

    Either way, thanks for trying to explain it. I'll be sticking around to see how it works out... largely because selling players is almost impossible, so at least I'll get to see how it plays out.

    On the other side of the coin someone else may see a £1 player go up for sale at 70p and bite your hand of for him



  • @Black-Wolf said in End of the road:

    On the other side of the coin someone else may see a £1 player go up for sale at 70p and bite your hand of for him

    I should hope so mate, that's a 30% spread which is an absolute crippler when you factor in commission too.

    If you buy a £1 player and he rises 50p, then you sell him on a 30% spread... with the 2% commission you're just about breaking even.

    At what point does the whole platform just look completely unreasonable?


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