Why are the spreads so big?



  • Hi. I haven’t been very active for a long time here. I was wondering if someone can tell me why the spreads are so huge now!? Seems impossible to make a profit and when it says your portfolio is X percent in profit, it’s just not accurate at all. Surely your overall profit/loss should be based on the sale price?
    I want to buy a player who’s sell price is £1.48 and buy is £1.83. I see you can bid but not really sure how this works. If I want e.g 100 options in this player what bid to people recommend me putting in? With very quick maths, it would appear he has to make a 22ish % increase just to break even! Just doesn’t seem to be worth it anymore. I look forward to any response. 😊



  • For that one player you want to buy I would recommend you buy one share first, either at full price or at a generous bid price. Personally I would go for a mid point between the sell price and the buy price, around the £1.65 mark.

    Once you have successfully bought one share you can see what the highest bid is. Click sell and this will show you the top price for your single share. Obviously don't sell, just cancel or back out of sell options.

    If you really want 100 shares in this player I would then bid for 99 shares at 1p above the highest bid. Then you are guaranteed to be the buyer when the next person IS, or until someone bids higher (if they bid same they are behind you in the queue).

    If you want the player but are not desperate to buy I would knock 4 or 5p off of the highest bid (unless that takes you below the IS price which is the average of the top 300 bids) and bid for 99 shares.

    The more shares you own the more information you can gather by seeing what prices are on offer for your shares (or you can reveal your hand and ask the forum what the highest bid is and depth of queue).

    Hope that helps and makes sense.



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  • @Martyn-B ive been doing exactly this. tracker shares. i think it pays to have a lot of good players atm. what i didnt know is that you can sometimes buy even if you put the bid below the highest bid. have you done this before?



  • @NewUser64644 depends on how in demand the player is and how badly you want him, but I am generally bidding at around 75-80% for my mid to long term punts. For those in demand, with tighter spreads, you'll probably have to go a lot higher, but for those with minimal interest, you can probably get at an even bigger discount.

    Without knowing the player, based on the numbers you gave I'd be bidding around £1. 50, especially if you're buying 100 as you've probably got a better chance of matching at a larger discount in smaller numbers. I'd then give it a few days to see what happens to the spread.

    Assuming you are able to buy on the ME, you certainly won't need to see a 22% price increase just to break even. In the old days, you could only buy at market price so this is just another opportunity to make money.



  • @jonathan-rolfe I am usually the highest bid on the players I am going for. I have also matched lots of bids where I am not the highest bidder.

    If someone bids a crazy high amount for a few shares (say 10). I know that I am the next highest bidder and just leave my bid in play. Next time someone IS 11+ shares I am getting matched.

    If a serious bidder comes in and I am several hundred shares down the queue I either leave my bid in place (wait for those high bids to sell and price to come back down to me), cancel and go back in higher or cancel and target another player.

    I am bidding on lots of players, usually 20 shares at a time. If one starts matching I can cancel other bids and load up on the one that is being matched. This is also why I have generally stopped posting on the ME buys thread, if I get a match I go in for more. I only post on there if I have fulfilled my buy quota.

    I have generally found the sellers are getting cleverer and more patient too, they can sell 20, wait a bit, new high bid comes, sell again etc etc. The days of sellers IS 300 at a time are generally gone.



  • Who is the player?
    Ask on here. For example if I had 300 if that player, I could tell you the depth.



  • Ok, I wouldn’t say I’m 100% sure of what you guys are talking about but starting to get the idea so thanks for all your help. The player is Steven Bergwijn.
    I placed a bid of £1.51 last night and they appeared to have been successful. Only for 9 shares. Current sale price is £1.47 and buy £1.83.
    So should I have bid lower? I bought 4 at £1.65 on Saturday so feel a bit stupid now!
    I kind of assumed the large spread was just another way of footy index making money so wasn’t expecting the £1.65 bid to be executed.
    So if I wanted to sell them now (I don’t as I’m going to buy more) then how would I go about it?
    And if I wanted to buy a few more what bid should I make?
    Thanks



  • @NewUser64644 I'd say you've done alright to get the 9 shares close to the lowest sell price. I would continue to bid as low as you can (but still over the minimum sell price so £1.48 at the lowest personally). I wouldn't feel stupid bidding slightly too high for him (at £1.65). Happens to all of us. As you now own shares in him you can check the lowest current sell price by clicking on the sell price and seeing what the maximum bid is on him currently.

    If you wanted to sell the shares you have at the moment then you can instant sell (again by clicking the sell price you can see how many shares are available at what price), or market sell by adding them to the sell queue if you wanted to get the current buy price. Unfortunately that then relies on someone buying them at that price and the chances are slim.

    That probably sounds like garbled nonsense to you right now. Takes a while to get your head around everything on here. Just make sure you watch plenty of YouTube guides and videos on buying and selling using the ME (Matching Engine) as i'm sure following something like that will make more sense.



  • @NewUser64644 I don't think the price you've got him at is unreasonable - when he scored against Man U a couple of months back, you could sell him instantly (IS) for around £2. His demand has waned a bit subsequently and while there's no Premier League football on, it's understandable that not many people want to pay top dollar at this exact moment in time.

    I would suggest monitoring the bid price regularly on the website version as you when you click Sell on that, you can change the number of shares to upto 300 and therefore see how many bids are made at what price. Then bid accordingly. The spreads will very likely tighten as we get closer to Spurs starting their season but equally, you may be able to benefit from some further In-Play Dividends (valid for the first thirty days of your purchase, including the day you bought them) if you held forth a tad.

    Keep reading the forum, check #FootballIndex on Twitter, have a look at some YouTube videos and you'll get the hang of it in no time.



  • @JonesyFI-WH actually makes sense 😊



  • @FootballArgos thanks. I’ve tried to look but can’t seem to find where it says about dividends. So is there special extra dividends for just the first 30days? I’ve traded here from probably near the beginning and made a few quid but haven’t paid much attention for a long time. I wish I had though!



  • @FootballArgos and I assume the spreads will close a bit due to people wanting the extra 30day dividends? So is it worth waiting until the season starts or will prices start to rise soon?



  • @NewUser64644 if you're on the website on a PC/laptop click on the 'More' button and select 'Academy.' There is a section called 'What are Dividends?'

    If you're on the app click on the little head and shoulders in the top right hand corner and select the 'How To Play' icon. From there select the 'What are Dividends?' icon.

    Explains all you need to know about dividends there mate.



  • @NewUser64644 actually that's out of date but will give you an idea of dividends.

    New Match Day dividends that go live 12/9/20 chart.

    151d5a17-9776-46d1-906f-244ca021f1d0-image.png

    In-play dividends.

    89bc1a4e-843f-41db-a69d-fa2780660c63-image.png



  • @NewUser64644 I mean a player could rocket (e.g. linked to Man U) or fall rapidly (linked to a non-PB league, injury etc) at any point really but as you may have noticed with the rise in La Liga players today is that people like to target a good set of fixtures and potentially pick up the IPDs.

    The judgement call is therefore whether you want to try to anticipate a large rise and buy early (possibly missing out on some IPDs) or to wait and maximise your dividend earning potential, with the risk of the price far exceeding the price you were initially paying.



  • @Martyn-B cheers. good information. i totally get you that you dont want to advertise successful low bids until you have got what you want. it's half the work to find them



  • @NewUser64644 i generally go 3 or 4 p above highest bid so that sounds reasonable



  • Really its just the amount of liquidity can only cover the top players. As a result the spreads on all the other players have increased and will only be reduced when sell orders bring the buy price down to the IS prices.

    The whole market needs liquidity not just the few top players.



  • Index has changed, need to be a lot smarter to make money. Its still achievable just not as easy to sell players. Need to be a lot more selective who you buy


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