Over Engineered?



  • Hi Folks,

    I rarely contribute to the forum but recent events have got me thinking & looking a bit closer at Football Index. I guess this post is part rant & part feedback which I'll break down in to 3 sub topics.

    Over Engineered - When I first joined F.I. things were pretty straightforward, easy to understand how to trade & what the potential rewards would be, however, over the last year or so I can't help noticing the continual desire for changes to the way things work as well as changes to rewards. Hardly a week goes by now without some new announcement of the next great change coming down the track. Can it not just be left alone for a period of time? I'm all for change & improvement but nowadays it feels like the site has lost focus to the football fans & has become much more focused on trading & become far too complex for people to understand, especially new joiners. My brother for example loves the beautiful game, knows it inside out but wont touch this place as for him it's now just too complicated, he'd rather stick with his regular bookie, place a bet & know's exactly how that works & what to expect. I feel that the focus here is moving away from football & too far towards City style trading with a constant need to keep an eye on things.

    3 Year Rule - I think this rule needs lots more clarity, especially for new joiners. Is the rule actually necessary? (Legal requirement?) I was an early joiner, I have a load of "Old" players in my portfolio but have no idea as to when they expire. How can I find that out, when do they expire, do I have 10 days left on some & 100 on others? Where do I get that info before I wake up one day only to find my shares (contracts) have been dumped as they had just gone over 3 years?

    Tracker - On the bottom right of screen one can see a "Buy 10 Tracker" as well as 50 & 100 etc. This terminology is plan wrong & misleading. A tracker in it's true sense buys & sells automatically as prices go up & down (Example, one can have a FTSE 100 tracker & as market caps of companies change then so does the tracker, it dumps shares no longer in the top 100 & buys shares that have just entered the 100) This is NOT what happens on here. On here one is simply buying the top 10 / 50 / 100 players based simply on their price at that given time, there is no tracking tacking place, players are NOT being bought/sold automatically which what a tracker does. As I say, the phrasing by F.I is wrong & misleading.

    Apologies if the above topics has been covered on the forums before, just wanted to air some views. I continue to hold my small portfolio but for the moment won't be adding any fresh funds.

    Thanks.



  • @NewUser52246

    Fully sympathise with your anxieties & think they highlight a few common stumbling blocks for recruiting new users;

    Most changes to the trading framework are now done, just market depth to come (showing the amount of supply & demand at any given price) which is vital to be able to predict/explain price changes such as last night's "flash crash".

    3 year rule will only start to be enforced from 2021, as it is a legal requirement, to qualify as a (tax free) bet rather than an open ended taxable investment. It will ONLY be enforced once timestamping has been introduced, so it should be clear & notifications can be issued that a certain, specific number of futures are nearing expiry, allowing time for them to be sold &/or recycled. So noone should suffer a 100% loss by accident.

    Trackers have now been discontinued, not sure what has happened to those already in portfolios as I never bought any.



  • Thank you, appreciated.



  • @NewUser52246 Looks like the 2nd and 3rd points have been addressed but I think the first is the most crucial topic in regards to whether FI can continue to grow. I joined over two years ago and have followed the changes and therefore the recent updates don't feel overly complex because I already have that base knowledge. However, one of my friends joined recently and I said i'd talk him through the basics... we were on the phone for hours!

    It made me think about who the target market really is now and if they have focused too much on attracting 'whales' at the expense of appealing to those that would maybe bet £10 - £20 pw. If so, then is it better for growth to have a few people willing to put in large sums than it being more accessible to the masses. The difficult question is how do they manage to make it appealing for both?

    I think you're right, they need to keep it consistent for a while now so that people are clear on what the product really is. Hopefully, they are in a position to do so now with any changes being quite subtle.



  • @NewUser52246

    Good post imo. alot of people just want a simple platform and be able to understand without the constant changing of the game. we keep being told by FI and alot of traders that its a 3 year bet etc , but I expect to make that bet and not have the terms constantly changed.
    several of my holds are over 2 years in non pb leagues and I was expecting to be able off the back of a few good early season results to get out having made some good cap ap. that was wiped out Sunday evening, I probably won't be able to make it back by the 3 year term. so a waste of 2 years . its how I trade as I simply don't have the time to be always on the index



  • @scfc Hi buddy, you are completely correct in your summing up of the situation. The product that they had was pretty safe and friendly for the masses which sustained the good steady growth that the platform enjoyed. What we have now will not atract the masses. The game has certainly changed.



  • I agree to a point. There are now four buy / sell functions - i.e. instant sell, place a sell order, buy now and place a buy order.

    I'm fine with this, but I wonder what a new trader would make of it and how long it would take them to understand how and when to use these different functions to maximise their profits.

    Having said that Order Books are essential to ensure the long term viability of the market place. FI couldn't prosper long term carrying the huge risk and liability of an instant sell function backed by 'the house'. What they've done by introducing Order Books has damaged values in the short term, but long term it should give everyone confidence that FI is now a solid and robust business, with no real risk of going bust because mass withdrawals are not possible unless you can find a trader to buy your bet.

    The 3-year rule will be dealt with once they enable users to check the date they bought futures on the website / app. In the meantime, everyone should keep a spreadsheet of their trades - which is sensible to do anyway in case there are any technical gremlins on the website /app.

    Trackers have been removed now, I believe.



  • yes, great post like others have said mate.

    I have always been in the "if it isnt broke, don't fix it" camp.
    I've been very vocal on this forum over the past 12 months in my opposition to FI constantly interfering and changing the terms of our bets (PB matrix changes etc)

    So, once Nasdaq is implemented, that should theoretically leave us with the finished product. FI can finally butt out and let the football do the talking! It's a fluid, largely unpredictable game which will provide enough excitement for us & volatility for them to make tonnes of profit. They can then concentrate on expansion to other countries

    As for explaining how FI works, yes its impossible to grasp in a few days! It takes weeks, even months for most!
    The "recruit 10 friends and get £200" offer is hilarious:

    I managed to only convince one of my mates last year, and he still has the £10 worth of Shaquiri sat in his port - only worth about £6 now so he can't even instant sell and withdraw haha!
    I tried advising/explaining and helping on numerous occasions but he just put his fingers in his ears and said forget it haha!

    FI is not for everyone, but that is also what makes it amazing!
    It's similar to the fact I like American Football (NFL) but none of my mates bar one bothers with it. NFL and FI are similar - lots of rules and quirks and VERY strategic, but the rewards once you are bang into it are massive :)



  • @ScouseSte Yea I wouldn't even know where to start with attracting new users.

    Very difficult to change the mindset of 'typical gamblers' who don't have the capital to invest and are only interested in throwing £30 at impossible accas every week because they know someone who won a £20k a few years ago.

    On the other hand I'd feel quite unethical attracting a non-gambler in to the world of gambling, particularly when big-losses are a strong possibility for new users on here.

    Not discussing FI with any colleagues either - never a good thing if your bosses find out you have more 'cash' than they do, also wouldn't want them finding out how much time I spend on here.



  • I personally think the 3 year rule is irrelevant now. The volatility is going to be so great it seems that it is going to be more profitable to trade on dips and highs. It's sad, as I had set up for a long term 3-year portfolio as an investment, with my first players expiring next year, but I think I'm going to downsize and just have a smaller portfolio with a cash balance for trading.



  • @Chris-J said in Over Engineered?:

    @ScouseSte Yea I wouldn't even know where to start with attracting new users.

    Very difficult to change the mindset of 'typical gamblers' who don't have the capital to invest and are only interested in throwing £30 at impossible accas every week because they know someone who won a £20k a few years ago.

    On the other hand I'd feel quite unethical attracting a non-gambler in to the world of gambling, particularly when big-losses are a strong possibility for new users on here.

    Not discussing FI with any colleagues either - never a good thing if your bosses find out you have more 'cash' than they do, also wouldn't want them finding out how much time I spend on here.

    Haha nice to rub the bosses noses in it if they ever get on your tits though - " I dont NEED this lousy job mate!" haha! ;)



  • @Chris-J I agree with you re 'typical gambler'. I suppose it's all about how you define a 'gambler' or 'gamble'. In its pure 'financial' sense then I suppose you either take chances or evaluate a risk and how you approach management of that risk. Anybody with exposure to the stock market is 'technically' gambling. they'll say, "Oh no, I'm investing" but the reality is your are assessing a risk to your capital that a stock/company will do well and rise in value and with FI now it really is no different. The next thing down the line I can see (once the dust has settled) is the ability to make money 'shorting' a player but maybe we shouldn't talk that one up just yet!
    P



  • @Markyman It certainly did feel more safe and friendly before, however this could still be a positive change. The market feels more sensitive now so it's important they get things right over the next 12 months, but if they do so I'm still confident there will be further growth.



  • One thing for sure is that new users are now presented with a very lucrative entry point - providing they put the time in to learn the platform.

    Assuming they can see past the latest drops and twitter hysteria that is.



  • @ScouseSte said in Over Engineered?:

    yes, great post like others have said mate.

    I have always been in the "if it isnt broke, don't fix it" camp.
    I've been very vocal on this forum over the past 12 months in my opposition to FI constantly interfering and changing the terms of our bets (PB matrix changes etc)

    Wait what!! Don't know about anyone else but I haven't noticied this 🤔😉

    NFL is quality for the 10 seconds each time its actually being played! I love visitng America and I like the passion the Americans have for it but its very start, stop, painfully almost at times.



  • @Shippers said in Over Engineered?:

    @ScouseSte said in Over Engineered?:

    yes, great post like others have said mate.

    I have always been in the "if it isnt broke, don't fix it" camp.
    I've been very vocal on this forum over the past 12 months in my opposition to FI constantly interfering and changing the terms of our bets (PB matrix changes etc)

    Wait what!! Don't know about anyone else but I haven't noticied this 🤔😉

    NFL is quality for the 10 seconds each time its actually being played! I love visitng America and I like the passion the Americans have for it but its very start, stop, painfully almost at times.

    Haha now now!

    We will be having a review next season, but thats ok, we have been notified with bags of time! Not a peep out of me when it happens ;)



  • @ScouseSte said in Over Engineered?:

    @Shippers said in Over Engineered?:

    @ScouseSte said in Over Engineered?:

    yes, great post like others have said mate.

    I have always been in the "if it isnt broke, don't fix it" camp.
    I've been very vocal on this forum over the past 12 months in my opposition to FI constantly interfering and changing the terms of our bets (PB matrix changes etc)

    Wait what!! Don't know about anyone else but I haven't noticied this 🤔😉

    NFL is quality for the 10 seconds each time its actually being played! I love visitng America and I like the passion the Americans have for it but its very start, stop, painfully almost at times.

    Haha now now!

    We will be having a review next season, but thats ok, we have been notified with bags of time! Not a peep out of me when it happens ;)

    😆

    I bet those 12 momths go quick mind but there won't be drastic changes, will benefit a selection of players as usual but only so much you can change.


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