Why can’t I have buy and sell orders for the same player at the same time?



  • This is a bit shit. I want to buy a player at a certain price and sell my existing shares at another. Why can’t I make these offers simultaneously for what are effectively different shares?



  • I thought this too. You could set your own parameters.
    Hoover up at x price and sell when it hits y price.
    Rinse, repeat.
    Thought that would be a given.



  • @Dronny-Gaz you’d expect that to be a basic function of order books, but apparently not.



  • its dogshit this and the zones are a bit of a farce. but lets face it still better than relying on thousands of shares to be bought/sold/listed to make price corrections.

    hopefully with Nasdaq they will get rid of these oddities.



  • Jesus. I'm glad none of you lot are in charge of FI.

    It's because you could manipulate the market by creating buy and sell orders at the same time.

    Adding a rock bottom sell bid would cause the buy price to fall and therefore increase the likelihood of your lower buy bid being accepted by an existing holder.

    Conversely adding a very generous buy bid would cause the instant sell price to rise and therefore increase the likelihood of your higher sell bid being taken up by a prospective buyer.

    If you thought the moaning was bad on here up to now, then it would hit unparalleled new levels if this idea was ever allowed to happen.





  • @ocs123 if a trader thought the bid was too low, they would bid higher thus bringing the spread in.
    If I put too high a sell order in, a trader would undercut me, thus making the spread tighter!



  • @ocs123 its how OB operate on the LSE... cant be too bad.



  • @Coriolanus

    Presumably the LSE has rather more liquidity though.



  • @ocs123 haven't gone bust tho. footstock allows it...market cap there is around 2m ….you set your own spreads...people fill them if you get too greedy



  • Exactly. How else do spreads tighten. The market dictates the value.
    That value will change dependant on other factors throughout the holds career.



  • OB's I have previously used on a another investment platform, has always allowed a bid and order to be placed at the same time.

    I think the same should be for FI too.



  • @Dronny-Gaz

    They're unlikely to bid higher, if the buy now price is apparently falling though are they?

    Likewise, they're unlikely to place a sell order lower, if they see the price IS price rising.



  • I value player x at 1.30ish.
    I'll buy if he goes lower than 1.10.
    I'll sell if he hits 1.50.

    That's trading!



  • @ocs123
    Depends how patient they are and how quickly the players price will alter.



  • @ocs123 said in Why can’t I have buy and sell orders for the same player at the same time?:

    It's because you could manipulate the market by creating buy and sell orders at the same time.
    Adding a rock bottom sell bid would cause the buy price to fall and therefore increase the likelihood of your lower buy bid being accepted by an existing holder.
    Conversely adding a very generous buy bid would cause the instant sell price to rise and therefore increase the likelihood of your higher sell bid being taken up by a prospective buyer.

    This was always the reasoning given but as time has gone on I am more of the believe that it's hugely damaging market liquidity to solve what might be a very small problem. Any manipulation could & should be solved by the rules &/or restrictions on the bids you could place instead of such a draconian total ban.

    It was pretty clear that a large TAA holder was (inadvertently) manipulating the market price when he bought thousands & a few days later listed them all causing an initially spike followed by a steep dip. It was almost immediately identified by FI & he was contacted to explain his behaviour & then openly admitted on the FIG podcast it was an innocent mistake but accepted he shouldn't have done it. He was warned that he could be suspended or worse & ceased.

    I used to regularly flip GK's for small IPD fun (before they got their own dividends & became hugely popular) but this became impossible due to lack of liquidity. Now i would quite happily have listed & bought back, from myself if necessary to renew IPD's & pay commission but that is also impossible. My solution was a 2% commission IPD refresh button which again FI have not implemented. So despite there being several legitimate ways that simultaneous buy & sell orders can be used they are totally banned, which leads to less trading, less liquidity, less commission & less fun - everyone loses instead of the possible win/win scenarios.

    How can that be the best solution to solve a problem that could easily be dealt with by enforcing other rules, as FI have already proved? Just another example of poorly thought out & self defeating solutions that damage not enhance platform enjoyment. No one want to see the market being manipulated but those determined to do it will always find a way; they can simply use 2 unconnected accounts but if the sanctions for doing it are severe (such as suspension followed by expulsion) then it is highly likely to be virtually eradicated.



  • liquidity is caused by buyers and sellers... let me be both and you've increased liquidity 100% lol. id set my value £1 buy £1.50 sell... others have to offer more or sell for less or wait... the impact being the spreads would tighten if im being to miserly with my bids or too greedy with my offers... and we find fair value as decided by the market.



  • @Coriolanus

    The problem is you are looking at that example from the point of view of someone who genuinely wants to buy at £1 and sell at £1.50.

    You need to think: how can that system be abused? The answer is quite easily and having the possibility of retrospective action via FI contacting people at a later date is not going to stop people.

    Under your system, I could inflate prices when I want to sell and deflate prices when I want to buy.



  • @ocs123 said in Why can’t I have buy and sell orders for the same player at the same time?:

    Jesus. I'm glad none of you lot are in charge of FI.

    It's because you could manipulate the market by creating buy and sell orders at the same time.

    Adding a rock bottom sell bid would cause the buy price to fall and therefore increase the likelihood of your lower buy bid being accepted by an existing holder.

    Conversely adding a very generous buy bid would cause the instant sell price to rise and therefore increase the likelihood of your higher sell bid being taken up by a prospective buyer.

    If you thought the moaning was bad on here up to now, then it would hit unparalleled new levels if this idea was ever allowed to happen.

    But that is what's happening. All be it not by one person as you can't but with two or more that are working together to manipulate prices.



  • @Erased-Citizen

    Yep, exactly and in theory those groups of people found to be doing it should be banned and have their accounts suspended.

    Allowing even individual people to do, is going to make the problem worse!


Log in to reply