Spreads



  • @Dan-The-Man no ones asking anyone to lie about the past or different peoples perceptions of it but for the love of god man its time to move on!!





  • @NewUser130968 They are bidding low not selling. Which means the buyers are running the show at the moment as you can't sell for anything other than to the IS price (low bidder) or list for sale between 1p below market value up to loads above it and hope.

    It is for stability but hopefully the 1p gap will be widened soon



  • @howsthebacon

    Basically people was buying every player however good or bad they was because they could instant sell them losing a few percent

    The people who massively tried to take advantage of this by purchasing players such as obi Mikel incase he joined a pb league are the people you’ve heard moaning for the last month

    They prob own players such as lingard dan James benteke troy parrot and are now stuck with players who should of dropped but blame footie index instead of themselves



  • @Gboar Bruno was overvalued at £10 though. People paying this amount doesnt validate his price long term. It was determined by momentum, demand, and idealism and these things change.

    Pogba was being purchased for £7 just before order books came in. I saw a bafflingly amount of buys shown on the ticker, despite the fact he wouldnt get near his price in dividends in the next 6 years yet alone the next 3. In my opinion, most players were overvalued when order books were introduced. There were good deals to be had ofc and there still are, but prices were being driven by much more than intrinsic values and the promise of such.

    People making a decision to buy so and so at whatever price months ago have no bearing on value today. There are lots of much discussed issues causing the current problems but for many players a market correction is taking place. Bruno, Trent and many others are moving to a more realistic price point but unfortunately their downward trajectory is losing people money and hitting confidence in the process. That we have these decreases whilst a bonus is in place says so much about trader confidence and the overvalued state of many players. It is also notable that not everyone is decreasing - some boosting good dividend performances are on the rise and have been since order books were introduced. It is effecting most of the market but not all and there are reasons for that.

    My concern about these changes is the final resting place of the market. With the current system it seems that too many players will be poor buys. Why buy a Dembele for example? Why buy a Pogba? Why buy most of a market that does not return consistent dividends relative to their price? The declining market is drawing more attention to the baseless value of previously overpriced assets and a dividend system which, outside of IPDs, rewards very few players.



  • @Timmy yes I was only using Bruno as an example. Like look at messi he had a yield of 41% last season. We now have much bigger dividends he could return up to 150% of his price in the next 2 years easily.

    Yes Bruno is overpriced but anybody buying who didn’t believe he would return over his buy in dividends is crackers and deserve to lose.

    Fi is driven by dividends and always will be, anybody who bought thinking otherwise deserves to lose.



  • @Dan-The-Man

    You are currently the biggest joke and most disruptive influence on the forum.

    Give it a rest.

    You are spoiling it for the rest of us.

    But you don't give a shit, because it's all about you Dan, it always has been.



  • @Dan-The-Man the money is still stuck? You're buying more shares with money you could withdraw though?!



  • @Gboar said in Spreads:

    Yes prices have dropped due to what fi have done, I agree with that, but I must have read it 500 times on the forum.

    OK. Scroll to the top and read JohnBoy and Blackwolfs posts, saying that it was nothing to do with FI, instead choosing to blame customers. They're rewriting history and making out like the OP is in the wrong for being pissed at FI.

    We aren't some cult. We don't need to lie to people about the situation to get them to put/keep their money in. That's the tactics of MLM/Pyramid Scheme users and FI gets enough comparisons to those without the community adding to similarities.

    Question for you. How did you value a player 6months ago, and how do you value a player now?

    I don't value a player the way you do. No offence intended but I think it's a fools errand. Everything changes so often in football and on FI, that by the time you've made the calculation you're info is bad.

    Historically, I've mixed my understanding of competing market trends with my ability to pick high yielding dividend winners. I've done this with great success since joining. It's what allowed me to pick Henderson over Neymar and get out during the time window that I suggested with 700% profit.

    Last year I was buying players with specific exit points in mind. For example, I knew Henderson would rise as Liverpool progressed through the Champions League and that a good season would see him in high demand during the Euro's because the market filters in the tournament players. I knew that the dividend matrix changes, increased his odds of winning PB and that as Liverpool captain during a period of their dominance, MB opening up to the full market would increase his odds of winning MB... and more importantly... that others would make that calculation too and buy in to him.

    Crucially though, I knew that if my plan went wrong, there was little chance of his price decreasing given the Liverpool/England situation and therefore I could Instant Sell with little risk given the spreads were tiny. That last part meant that I was willing to bet significantly more of my money. Likewise, it means other traders similar to me, are also less likely to put as much of our money into that bet, therefore lowering expected demand.

    Under the old system, I liked to pick up 1500 futures in low priced players, I wouldn't consider picking up 1500 futures in the low end market under the current conditions. The risk vs reward is too big. Shifting 1500 of a low demand player with no IS, could prove impossible and doing so with profit given the spreads.... that would be even harder.



  • @johnboywalker said in Spreads:

    @Dan-The-Man

    Give it a rest.

    How about you give it a rest?

    You came in to the thread to peddle your BS.

    If you're so sick of hearing these things, why are you constantly in these threads?

    Do you think when the OP made his thread, he wanted you to come tell him it was customers fault that FI changed the game on us?



  • @Dan-The-Man so you calculated your returns partly on the hope that somebody else would buy him off you at a higher price even if you didn’t think he would return enough divs throughout his career? Just seems strange

    Re the fi changing the market, yes they did but it was in the rules that they didn’t have to offer is. It was very strange for them to offer such low spreads. Long term I’m hugely in favour of what they done as less liability means much larger dividends as shown



  • @Dan-The-Man said in Spreads:

    @johnboywalker said in Spreads:

    @Dan-The-Man

    Give it a rest.

    How about you give it a rest?

    You came in to the thread to peddle your BS.

    If you're so sick of hearing these things, why are you constantly in these threads?

    Do you think when the OP made his thread, he wanted you to come tell him it was customers fault that FI changed the game on us?

    Tell you what then mate, why don't we both take a break from the forum?

    I'll happily make that sacrifice, just to stop you from polluting the forum with your endless flow of shite and self pity.

    But you won't do that, because it's all about you. 🤔



  • @Dan-The-Man we knew order books where coming for a long time and it was traders pushing for them not FI. FI just listened. Order books put the buy and sell prices into the hands of traders and therefor the spreads are under our control too. They reflect demand and if the heres no demand anongst traders for a specific player or market sentiment is low then of course spreads will be larger and that has nothing to do with FI so blaming them for large spreads is ludicrous.

    By your same logic you could blame FI for adding value to the bottom end when introducing IPDs or moan at them for creating PB. The changes they have made are for the evolution of the product. FI didnt create the large spreads in our current market, negativity and ignorance to the evolution did and this new system means that no matter when you join no one ever has to miss the boat. That wide spread you lot are moaning about is someone elses low priced entry point



  • I’m sure some people won’t like what i say but these are all facts facts:

    1. The 1p buy price cap.

    This is terrible. Buyers Simply won’t buy 1p under this price sellers are allowed to list for because it doesn’t represent the best value. So everyone places a bid instead. These bids get smaller until no one sells. The buyer has nothing to lose, they either buy or move on to another target. The seller on the other hand is eventually blackmailed into selling low, because)

    A) they keep button bashing the buy price down desperate to get the most money. The seller then sees this and lowers their bid knowing the asset is cheaper by bidding. Even if the buy price reaches what was once “the middle”, it no longer represents the middle, so prices continue to get lower and lower because the cycle repeats.

    B) Invested money can only be withdrawn once assets are sold. Sellers therefore have to accept the sell price because no one uses the buy price. Simply, the seller is more desperate/trapped than the buyer.

    The whole bidding and selling system is meant to be a “tug of war”, where two parties finally agree a price somewhere in the middle, but because of the 1p cap the seller has no pulling power. So the buyers bid lower and lower, pulling and pulling until the seller topples over, becoming so uncomfortable with the price that they sell before prices falls anymore.

    As for players being over priced (say a pogba). This would only be because people became happy paying more than his worth. But the real flaw here is because FI don’t increase their dividends at the same rate the market grows. Which should be happening. As players rise in price, FI earn more comission (good for them), but if they don’t account for this by increasing the dividends on a long-term consistent basis the market reaches a ceiling, where there can be no more growth, until there is more value for premiums, For example:

    Why pay £10 for Mbappe when you can pay £1 for Vardy? Vardy earns 2p per goal/assist for 30days (2%), but Mbappe earns 0.2%. If mbappe also wins a the occasional media prize and best forward does this out weigh the value of the frequency Vardy scores and assists + the random media wins? SIMPLY NO, IT DOES NOT! This example only gets more carzy with a player like Ibrahimovic that costs less than 70p a share!! (Any one that thinks in-play is pointless simply has no clue! 3% per goal!)

    This means either:

    1. There needs to be more value for higher priced players.

    Or

    1. Player prices will fall/top out.

    FI can fix all this instantly with two moves;

    -Give the seller the power to list near the middle price.

    -Create more value for premium holdings.



  • @Gboar said in Spreads:

    @Dan-The-Man so you calculated your returns partly on the hope that somebody else would buy him off you at a higher price even if you didn’t think he would return enough divs throughout his career? Just seems strange

    I can understand why you might say it seems strange but it was incredibly effective. To me, it's strange trying to predict the expected dividends of a player over his career given that the everything about the player will change, including where he players, who plays with, what league, coach, etc. Even more so given that FI changes every two minutes and that players drift in and out of form.



  • @NewUser610639 the 1p below and change to 900 shares valuation was a terrible move and im massively against it but it was FI’s way of holding the hands of the panicked and turning on the night light for the scared it would of been far more beneficial for us all if FI had done nothing and allow the market to recover on its own and let traders learn from the experience.



  • @johnboywalker said in Spreads:

    Tell you what then mate, why don't we both take a break from the forum?

    You do what you like mate, but I enjoy the forum. More so, when people aren't trying to convince folk that black is white... I doubt you even disagree with my assessment of the market John.

    But hey, if you're not enjoying it... when the fun stops... stop.



  • @NewUser610639 a lot of what you say is true but they have made dividend much more attractive, on the whole double what they were last year so you can’t moan at fi for that.

    At the end of the day we’re in a bit of a dip, with some prices correcting themselves, but going forward if fi keep increasing divs then the index will only go one way



  • @Gboar said in Spreads:

    @NewUser610639 a lot of what you say is true but they have made dividend much more attractive, on the whole double what they were last year so you can’t moan at fi for that.

    At the end of the day we’re in a bit of a dip, with some prices correcting themselves, but going forward if fi keep increasing divs then the index will only go one way

    -Im not moaning. It’s a fact. it’s economics...

    -I’m heavily investing atm, it will UTurn.

    -Dividend out lay vs Commission Income should work in correlation to one another. Thats a healthy system fo FI.



  • @Black-Wolf said in Spreads:

    @Dan-The-Man we knew order books where coming for a long time and it was traders pushing for them not FI. FI just listened.

    I've no objections to Order Books.

    Order books put the buy and sell prices into the hands of traders and therefor the spreads are under our control too.

    If we were starting from blank, sure. We weren't though. We were starting from a system that didn't use Order Books, that was filled with players who's prices were built on FI's Instant Sell and then trapped under the weight of 40% spreads, passage of time, etc. That was FI's doing and their implementation/communication left us in this position.

    To suggest that FI had nothing to do with the reason spreads so were huge, ignores that FI that built the platform, created the market conditions, changed the market conditions, and then warned us that their latest change would cause spreads to widen. FI themselves said this would happen because of their recent changes and yet your opening post in here flatly rejects that.

    FI took the blame themselves... and you're arguing with them...


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