When the fun stops STOP



  • Just curious to know the index's legal stance with this one, as the title suggests how can you stop when you can't get rid of your players, after all this is legally a betting platform and not a trading platform so it would be interesting to see what betting regulators made of not actually being able to stop, also one more point whilst I'm on it, would any other betting company he allowed to change your bet so frequently once it's been placed and allow the customer not to take their money before it's implemented



  • @MUFC You make some very valid points. In my opinion FI have not handled this situation very well and comms have been poor. However, I believe they will learn from this but it remains to be seen whether FI as a 'Trading Platform' can survive long term. Right now I wouldn't want to predict which way the knife will fall.

    Currently I am unable to off load one of my players and this is quite unusual in a 'trading' system. It tells me that there just isn't the required demand to create a market that has a future. The original FI market was effectively a 'false' market but it worked. The introduction of 'order books' has shown how fragile the 'real' market is now.

    For what it is worth I intend to actively re-enter the market once NASDAQ has had time to bed in. There is no doubt that users of FI need to educate themselves to how the new trading system operates. People say it is much more complex and 'hard work'. On first examination this may be the perception but the reality is that it is just different and not as complex in reality. The good news is that if people can master FI then they can also trade conventional stock markets - the principle is the same. As long as you do the necessary research it could potentially open up extra income streams for individuals to make a pound or two. It is not for everybody and some time is required to learn, study and research the products... but it has to be better than letting the banks have your cash.

    Good luck to all FI 'traders'.



  • @MUFC Not sure, but legally I suspect that once you have placed a bet, it's no longer your money, so they would be obligated to stop problem gamblers placing more bets, but don't think they would have to return open bets.

    I know FI isn't a standard gambling platform, but I suspect that they are under no obligation to give a cash back option to those with a problem, but they would have to stop further bets being placed. Don't know if there's anything in their terms about how to treat an open portfolio if someone finds themselves in this position.

    As for changing the rules, I suspect they would be covered by their terms and conditions and most of the changes positively affect parts of the market (conversely, there's normally a part that's negatively affected too) so suspect they know they're on safe ground. Not saying they are, but you would like to think that legally they know what they're doing!



  • @MUFC essentially as has already been mentioned here, we've already placed our bets. The fact they run for a lot longer than traditional bets isn't the problem of football index. Its the same as betting on who may win the league in 3 years time for example.

    I would say FI have a responsibility to encourage us to stop buying more players if anyone is suspected of having a gambling problem though.

    I often get messages on the app saying am I sure I want to stay on it, even when I've not been on that long.



  • @Stevo think this is where the problem lies. We had IS so traders think they have the entitlement to that money until the value of the player is worthless or 3 years expire. In reality it's no different to putting a bet on Kane to score - you have already placed your bet and are waiting to settle. You can't whack 50 quid on an acca and say 'actually think I might have a problem, can I have that 50 quid back' I the middle of a game



  • @Moukoko yeah the main issue i guess is people feel like the goalposts have changed mid bet and its gone from feeling like an investment platform to a full on gambling platform.



  • @Stevo exactly, my point would be would you place a tenner on rashford to score then the bookies say actually now he has to score 2 to get your money, different principle I know but just highlighting the fact since I've been on here 2 years they have moved the goalposts to far and now people who thought they had a instant get out now don't as there is a huge void in demand for players, half don't even have an instant sell



  • @MUFC a better analogy would be that it's like putting a bet on Rashford to score two and the bookies changing the bet and paying out on one, given that divs have increased



  • @Moukoko divs have increased but players who you could take an educated punt on now have no instant sell so you are literally stuck



  • When the fun stops, stop, means a stop to any further gambling

    It doesn't mean when the fun stops the Gambling company have to give you all your money back that you've already bet...:)



  • The thing is, on many traditional bookies you can put on a long-term bet (e.g. PL winner) and cash out at any point if you wish. Obviously some don't offer this, but the good ones will.

    FI doesn't actually offer it, unless another user wants to take that bet off you. This is the difference. IS in the old days was the 'cashing out' option.

    However, I guess this is more akin to a betting exchange, which is probably where FI see themselves as sitting on a legal perspective. You can't cash out without liquidity on Betfair.

    We all see how much money is traded on Betfair, so the potential is there for FI to be like that. But certainly the days of blindly going for cheap punts are long gone, as that safety net doesn't exist anymore.



  • ROLE OF BETINDEX as terms and conditions
    BetIndex is a betting operator that operates fixed odds betting in respect of footballers on Football Index. BetIndex is the counterparty to all Bets placed by Account Holders. Does online fixed odds betting follow same laws as fixed odds betting terminals in betting shops


  • Banned

    @Moukoko
    A better analogy would be like putting a bet on Rashford to score two with the promise of a 90% cashout if he doesnt, and then removing the cash out option.



  • I have a lot of cheaper punts in my portfolio. I'm willing to give them at least 6 months. But make no mistake, FI have put the likes of me in a sticky situation. If I'm still stuck in 6 months time I won't be happy.

    With all they've made recently by removing their liability, maybe they could offer reasonable IS prices on players under 50p for example. @Baydog suggested something like this I think.

    I bet FI wish they could just go back to a top 200, or maybe 400 now. There'd be enough liquidity to support the market then. When they opened the squad, they thought IS would always be available. And now it isn't.

    I'm only glad none of my shares are expiring anytime soon.



  • @MrWh1te said in When the fun stops STOP:

    @Moukoko
    A better analogy would be like putting a bet on Rashford to score two with the promise of a 90% cashout if he doesnt, and then removing the cash out option.

    Well the bet would be ended then, so I would say a better one would be "You can get a 90% cashout if he's not on the starting sheet", and then removing that offer.

    Our bets are still 'in play' so to speak, on here.



  • @JK said in When the fun stops STOP:

    I have a lot of cheaper punts in my portfolio. I'm willing to give them at least 6 months. But make no mistake, FI have put the likes of me in a sticky situation. If I'm still stuck in 6 months time I won't be happy.

    The good thing is that there are still brief, crazy rises in cheaper players when they do well - even now the 5x IPDs are over. So, assuming these 'cheap punts' are actually still decent players, the chances are high you will be able to catch a rise and sell them if you set a sell price before they put in a good game.

    I have about 50 players set like this, and a few have already gone. Over 6 months it should hopefully clear most of them.



  • @JK said in When the fun stops STOP:

    I have a lot of cheaper punts in my portfolio. I'm willing to give them at least 6 months. But make no mistake, FI have put the likes of me in a sticky situation. If I'm still stuck in 6 months time I won't be happy.

    With all they've made recently by removing their liability, maybe they could offer reasonable IS prices on players under 50p for example. @Baydog suggested something like this I think.

    I bet FI wish they could just go back to a top 200, or maybe 400 now. There'd be enough liquidity to support the market then. When they opened the squad, they thought IS would always be available. And now it isn't.

    I'm only glad none of my shares are expiring anytime soon.

    I reckon with the IPDs at 2p G&A 2p clean sheet 4p defender goal there should be a pretty reasonable level of action to get involved in the sub £1.50 market. I'm buying there for the most part still it doesn't worry me about getting stuck with them. I expect they will run more enhanced IPD promos in the future too - so as long as the players you have a capable of scoring assisting or keeping a clean sheet in a PB league then there hopefully should be opportunities to get out or even make profit..

    I remember suggesting at the time that they should up IPDs or extend the window - they have doubled them which is great and I saw Eric post something yesterday that showed FI are considering extending the IPD window.. Both are excellent ways to keep the cheaper end of the market moving.

    I've got quite a few speculative players in my port that I am lumbered with most in the red, so I have set sell offers on all at min of 20% profit, and to be fair some have shifted unexpectedly (Bouna Sarr and Oudin went this week thought I could be stuck with both and made 30% on each of them). Could take a while on some like Waldschmidt mind!


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