I am out... Good luck FI Traders



  • Well it's been an interesting 4 weeks on this platform.

    I invested £650 across 17 players. Almost immediately around the 10th September all but 3 of those players were in negative equity - most hadn't even played a game.

    Having been fairly active on the forum for the first week or so it was interesting to hear the difference in opinions for and against the current state of play. I won't get into all that again.

    my overall view is the current severe lack of liquidity makes this platform currently unusable.

    The current hybrid state of FI neither being a decent football spread betting platform nor a simple, fun gambling platform is not working.

    Etoro for example have a good balance of either being able to buy the underlying stock with zero leverage (less risk) or 2X or 5X leverage (more risk) which is great and still low risk compared to say IG where leverage is capped at 30X. I think it would be easy for FI to implement this type of thing. Equally Etoro's Copytrade would be interesting albeit potential copyright issues.

    Introduction of a stop loss would also make things a lot easier to manage. Currently there isn't enough ROI to sit on the platform all day or constantly check in but also around the 10th/11th there was lots of volatility which if traders had a stop loss and trailing stop loss they wouldn't have freaked out, lost their heads and half their portfolio values after 3 years building it up and sold which in turn created more fear.

    The current charts - are just a waste of time and I believe certain tools to align more to a real trading platform could also help here.

    The fact that currently if I place a bid for one of my players and offer 1p less than the buy price and it isn't getting accepted is clear sign of the lack of liquidity.

    Overall the platform needs all or some of the above to be implemented and until then it's a waste of time investing any real money for such small returns or losses. Especially as I see from some traders substantial amounts of savings.

    Just my opinion and many will say now is a great time to stick around for the next 3 years while prices are low and wait for the marketing to kick in and big traders to join but right now there are many more ways to achieve what you are trying to achieve, I joined to make some cash whilst trading an asset that's more fun than company stock, FX, indices etc.. but right now I can't see it happening.

    4 weeks. £650 invested , £600(ish) withdrawn.

    I really want this platform to be successful so hope to be back one day hopefully if they launch into new territories and get far more volume.

    Best of luck!



  • @NewUser664633 good luck to you and goodbye



  • @NewUser664633

    sounds like you know how these order books work,
    not worth 600£ risk with your knowledge but etoro is?



  • @kaka8

    do you understand dividends and AIM markets. eToro you just copy some guy you think knows more than you,. awful idea because if you even make money you didnt achieve it. someone else did



  • Anyone who thinks they can turn a sizeable profit on here in 4 weeks is optimistic at best. Patience is the key. I'd have a look again at what your port would be worth in six weeks time, six months time and a years time.



  • You've probably entered the market on the biggest dip we've ever seen and we haven't properly started the recovery yet. You'll also be leaving in the middle of an international break with no football - surely if you wanted out you could at least wait till the next gold day? 🤷‍♀️

    It sounds like you've made your mind up, but I'd urge patience, this has been a very rocky couple of months.

    Good luck whatever you decide 👍🏻



  • @Leighton not an unfair comment! Maybe I just don't have the patience! I just need to see more than I am currently seeing to convince me to invest more and that's the slight catch 22 - in 4 weeks I am overall -4% down.

    There is nothing currently that's convincing me that if I stick around for another 11 months that's going to change.

    In what way do you see a significant shift over the next 6 /12 months?

    It's currently like investing in Ripple (crypto) or any other illiquid asset, it'll just sit around the same, might go up a little bit, might go down a little bit, either way it's dead until something significant happens at which point it would be worth investing again.

    Trust me if this was a viable way to make money in a subject I love I would invest thousands!



  • But its just about to get good...



  • @BeanDrown Yeah good point and I would typically like the idea of "buying the dip" but i have tested that with some players where I have bought at a 3 month dip and still they went down further haha!

    I will stick around for a bit if anything just to get some more dividends.

    I don't want this to be negative, I am just more disappointed and it is a fact that currently there is a serious lack of volume.

    I really was excited and hoping this platform would be really fun whilst making some cash and a lot less boom or bust than traditional gambling.



  • Once this international break is over we are entering a period where there will be both domestic and European games coming very fast together so basically every day there will be matches eligible for PB my advice would be to give it to the next international break and see the difference it will make to your potential dividend pay outs and if you have bought PB players from the top teams in Europe then you should have a lot more returns



  • @NewUser664633 you seem to know your shit and you're also clearly reasonable so by no means am I having a dig. But your posts seem to ignore dividends...do you think they're too small to be attractive or have you just not been here long enough to fully experience them?

    I get your point regarding cap app, unless you have found a gem of a young player no one knows about then there isn't much scope for cap app in sight although if the product grows and more people/money joins when NASDAQ come in, we could see some cap app.

    For me at the minute it's all about the dividends, during the bonus period I won about 50 quid from a port of about 1600 quid, not a bad return. I thought it would drop substantially after the bonus but I still took him around 30 quid without the bonus last week. So whilst the cap app aspect isn't there atm, there are still dividends and as long as you have faith in the players you bought, the values going up and down shouldn't be too much of an issue.

    Also if you have time on your hands the volatility with the spreads after matches are finished presents lots of opportunities to make short term trades which can bring in small profit in the mean time. Appreciate you need time on your hands for this though.

    Good luck with whatever you do though :)



  • Personally I'd give it a bit longer to play around with the platform, without investing more until you've learnt the ropes, before making a decision either way but it's your money and therefore your choice. The reason to give a bit more time is to see how the market functions in normal-ish times (ignoring Covid!) as the past four weeks have been distorted by the transfer window, the IPD bonus and then straight into an international break. The market will behave differently when we have a run of back to back match days. It might still not be for you, but having got this far, I'd actually want to see how it works before walking away again.



  • @NewUser664633

    Ok I will try ...

    I've been on Football Index for about 3 years or so and seen plenty of crashes and market stagnation. Every single time, there has been a flood of people leaving with people not seeing a future and every time the market has massively increased afterwards making the people who sold low look a bit foolish.

    This is different. However ultimately Football Index has always been about making bets that a player will win dividends and then trading them. In essence nothing has changed other than one buyer (FI themselves) withdrawing. Yes that's a very big buyer but ..

    Using Bruno as an example, people were paying £10 for a bet a few months ago that now they are prepared to pay £7 for even though the value of that bet is now doubled. All logic suggests prices on the index should radically increase.

    Football Index have major plans. They have ambitious market cap aims and huge advertising budgets. They are going to have to make this work and turn it around. Success in the past was largely word of twitter with people showing off their returns. Their liabilities have been erased so they have the ammo to do something and make the market trend upwards.

    Throughout FI's history we have always had new users complain, its not fair - old users had the chance to buy Neymar at 25p was easy for them then. The chances are (and nothing is guaranteed absolutely nothing especially in an order book world) that in a couple of years time, new users will complain its not fair that traders in 2020 were able to buy players for x price and it was easy for them. So if you leave you need to be prepared to accept that you had that chance and walked away.

    FI is more risky now and I don't recommend throwing money at it. When I started I put in £100 and didn't put more in until I was in a position where 50% of my portfolio was funded by profits and 50% with my own cash and I kept that ratio whilst my portfolio grew.

    Ultimately its up to you - but FI will be aggressively trying to grow the index and if they do (like they historically have been able to do) then prices across the board will rise.



  • Just to add to this ...

    Pretty sure I was down after 4 weeks. I joined in transfer territory I think which is very hard for newbies to get right. Obviously this is unchartered territory and things have changed but to be making decisions on whether to stay based on your 4 week P and L is a bit silly really.

    If you don't like the platform and/or don't think you can make money from it then that's a sensible reason to leave. The 4 week P and L figure isn't.



  • @howsthebacon thank you for the advice and I do completely see where you are coming from.

    I guess for me I think I had probably unrealistic expectations around the dividend bonuses , for example Salah I think it was that scored a hat trick in that first week and overall in 1 month including that hat trick I think I earned about £7-£8 from him but yes I think you equally could be right in that maybe it needs time to fully appreciate the dividends and ultimately if you say invest £50 in a player and make £50 back through dividends that's a pretty good place to be.

    It's hard to pin down exactly how I feel about FI as of course there's really good arguments for and against.

    I think I am disappointed as my ultimate goal was to trial things with the £650 and then if it looked good I would consider going in for a lot more.

    It seems we completely agree about capital appreciation and it's that side I am probably most disappointed by , for example buying some players and they have absolutely incredible performances but seeing no change or in fact prices reversing. Very frustrating!

    I do completely see your points though and definitely worth considering.

    I think ultimately we all want this to be a great platform with tons of volume and after what seems to have been a big hit over the last month be rewarded eventually for sticking it out and being early to the party so to speak - a bit like the bitcoin rush lol!

    Hoping that happens for everyone who sticks it out!



  • @Mintyfresh thanks mate very much appreciate the advice and wishing you good luck on here also.



  • @NewUser664633 I can completely understand why those who have joined recently would leave. I expect it has happened an awful lot in the last month or so. Making money on here requires an awful lot of research and time trading and that will never work with those who want a fairly casual gambling experience, but without market depth it’s not a perfect investment platform either.

    I do, however, think if you look at the value vs dividends of many players on the index now there is some extremely good value. Things are currently trickling up at a time (international break) when the market is usually in a lull. My own experience is that in the first couple of months I made loads of mistakes and even shat my pants and sold up on brown Sunday, before reentering the market about the same time as you joined. You’re absolutely right that there is a real issue with a lack of liquidity, but with sentiment changing I think that will slowly change. Having said all of that, I get it and good luck for the future!



  • Overall the platform needs all or some of the above to be implemented and until then it's a waste of time investing any real money for such small returns or losses. Especially as I see from some traders substantial amounts of savings.

    And lastly ...

    "such small returns"

    During growth periods, the index has returned astonishing returns that would make returns from serious investments looks a bit laughable. Example being the 6 months leading to the world cup, pretty much made 100% during that period trading pretty passively.

    Again not promising anything. What goes up can go down and the circumstances are very different - we may never see rockets like we have in the past, order books might make that impossible we don't know. We've also seen recently the downturns which have been pretty messy.

    But in the past, when the market has taken off, the returns have been explosive.

    This is why you get a lot of people defending FI so keenly because they have been on the positive side of some of these rockets. People have made life changing money in a short period of time. Again for balance, no guarantee we will ever see them again but .....



  • @Richio said in I am out... Good luck FI Traders:

    @NewUser664633 I can completely understand why those who have joined recently would leave. I expect it has happened an awful lot in the last month or so. Making money on here requires an awful lot of research and time trading and that will never work with those who want a fairly casual gambling experience, but without market depth it’s not a perfect investment platform either.

    I do, however, think if you look at the value vs dividends of many players on the index now there is some extremely good value. Things are currently trickling up at a time (international break) when the market is usually in a lull. My own experience is that in the first couple of months I made loads of mistakes and even shat my pants and sold up on brown Sunday, before reentering the market about the same time as you joined. You’re absolutely right that there is a real issue with a lack of liquidity, but with sentiment changing I think that will slowly change. Having said all of that, I get it and good luck for the future!

    I actually think liquidity is a little over-rated. The lack of liquidity makes prices volatile but not necessarily makes them crash. Sentiment is everything.

    Lets say Bruno won two star players in a row and people all removed their sell orders. Suddenly his price would go up to £10.

    People see Bruno leap to £10 in no time, lets say Neymar then wins a star player - people see what happened to Bruno and un-list asap. FOMO kicks in and his price rockets. People see couple of players rocketing so look at the other premiums and start cancelling sell orders or setting higher ones and so on you have a FOMO fuelled market with prices rising everywhere.

    Recently, we have had the opposite.



  • @SDOAFIT Thanks for taking the time here and the measured/considered response. Everything you say makes sense and hard to argue with. I think the decision really is whether to leave money in (albeit not very much) and stick it out or take money out and come back when things do pick up. At the moment it probably takes up a bit more time than it should and the returns aren't justifying that investment in time. Don't know if that makes sense..

    From a comany perspective I saw a youtube clip with the CEO and the talk of venturing into new territories and the fact at the moment the platform is very UK focused and that will change as the index gets more depth and hopefully volume as well as the marketing as you say they are all over the place aren't they!

    I think what my issue is. I was expecting a far more complex platform with the ability to make some good cash (£100-500 per day on match days) but regardless of investment and the portfolio value I can't currently see a way that could happen.

    At the moment with current volume levels it feels like a fun, slightly more risky savings account with marginal gains.

    Is that unfair?


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