Stuck in a FI Nightmare? - Help is here....



  • When FI removed their backing to IS & left it down to traders to provide the depth & liquidity the market needed to function via OB’s it left lots of traders holding mid/lower end players with a couple of unpalatable options; sell where possible, often at a huge spread/loss or hold for a better exit opportunity. Now many months down the line some of us are still in that same holding pattern, so I propose at least a partial solution; A non-market IPD refresh option, basically an option to IPD refresh players by paying the relevant commission directly to FI without the need to go via market.

    Why will this help such players?

    It would provide a reason to buy & hold the 85% of the players on the index that have very little chance of threatening PB/MB/TOTM wins, IPD's are the ONLY thing that gives them their value (without IPD chances they are essentially worthless). Currently the whole market is suffering from lack of liquidity & depth which means that IPD trading is slowly dying due to lack of opportunity to economically refresh eligibility (huge spreads & lack of liquidity). This is an unhelpful by product of the removal of FI backed IS but given it won't be reinstated we now need an alternative. Traders can & will provide it, as demonstrated by the 5X promo, just not under current normal market conditions.

    Obviously the ideal scenario would be plenty of liquidity & everyone trading in/out of the market but there's currently insufficient money in the market to facilitate this across every player, the mid/lower end IPD types are amongst the worst hit by this lack of market depth. If you wait long enough & try hard enough you can probably trade a few hundred or less but to refresh hundreds or thousands is simply impossible at prices that make it economically viable. Given this why would anyone buy these players?, as after the initial 30 days you are effectively trapped in an unsaleable player except at huge loss. All players have theoretical IPD value but if the cost of accessing it is so high as to be a disincentive to buy them in the first place then they are in reality worthless, does FI or anyone else want the platform to simply be a game of swapping between the Top 300/400 most valuable players?

    Providing a non market refresh button means buyers can hold players in the knowledge of being able to renew IPD eligibilty at anytime (without the risk being stuck in a worthless hold) & have the incentive to buy & hold such players without the need to find an exit after only 30 days (that often doesn't exist) THIS INCREASED DEMAND WILL ALLOW CURRENT HOLDERS A FAIRER EXIT PRICE. FI would benefit from both the increased demand & refreshing; more commission from increased refreshing & from the market purchases (which are also someone's sales, so paying commission). FI could also probably charge a premium for the ease & certainty of using the button (as opposed to the cheaper market option) which would be set at a level to help balance the increased payout liability. Buyers, sellers & FI will all benefit from this proposed solution.

    In time as the market grows more money, liquidity & demand will filter down to all players & market recycling will become the norm but we are several years away from that IMHO, so either FI facilitate easier refreshing or risk seeing IPD trading die forever. Currently traders are improvising a solution; "agreed swaps" without which IPD trading would be almost non existent but this is both an unacceptable & unsustainable solution, as well as possibly infringing the platform T&C, so FI need to be proactive & provide traders a bespoke solution like my proposal IMHO.

    THIS WILL NOT JUST HAPPEN ON IT’S OWN – YOU NEED TO ACT; lobby FI via CS, twitter, Podcast, Trader panels & any other legitimate communication channel is the only way to get some action. I appreciate FI have a lot of ongoing projects atm, most only making painfully slow progress, but rejuvenating the market needs to be their top priority IMHO which is why I think this proposal carries such merits. If like me you want to see FI grow & succeed for everyone’s benefit please help & if you simply want an exit from your nightmare trades this helps you too, so please help yourself & support this proposal. It might not be the silver bullet or the entire solution but it will certainly help IMHO.

    Many thanks



  • @Geronimo159387 Excellent post that I would of struggled to put as well as you have. It's also something that should be fairly easy to implement, compared to some of the other developments they're battling with.



  • You've contacted them directly haven't you? @Geronimo159387 - feel like it's one of those things where they'll see it and think, great idea but we don't want to seem like we're pandering to our users, lets give it some time and then implement it like it was our idea all along haha.



  • Great post mate. It will help many people stuck with bad bets. Some of these bad bets were bought on by themselves, others were a direct result of the removal of IS



  • @Geronimo159387 nice idea but this will never be a viable option as you will be able to a refresh a player that in midfield if he scores and costs a quid he will almost certainly return more divs than the refresh amount each time.



  • @CLACKETT said in Stuck in a FI Nightmare? - Help is here....:

    @Geronimo159387 nice idea but this will never be a viable option as you will be able to a refresh a player that in midfield if he scores and costs a quid he will almost certainly return more divs than the refresh amount each time.

    The cost could be balanced in a few different ways; higher comm, limited days/games, limited value so only x% of port/£Y per month, only eligible to use on Z times a day/week/month, only a set number of players in a given time period. Should the scenario you propose become a problem you could just move the eligibility deadline to say 24hrs after activation, thus excluding any current IPD's, only including future (unknown) G&A/CS's.

    The concept is sound & the details could be refined over time IMHO. Ultimately market growth will mean it becomes obsolete, hopefully.



  • @Geronimo159387
    Great post!!



  • Not to sound lazy - but im gonna be lazy and ask.

    Would it be worth a one of two liner summing up the above which we can simply post on our social media that says the same as everyone elses....that way I think they will get the point.

    Does that make sense? We can just copy and paste and FI will see the same message over and over again?



  • Having been a lone voice requesting it & getting nowhere, I am now changing tactics; "Be like water" & mobilise many voices to sing the same song.

    I have provided the concept but it's success will depend on the ingenuity of others in getting the message across to benefit everyone.



  • I have seen you mention this before, and I think it would be a great idea. It would also create a new batch of players who, although playing in poor teams or not PB monsters, would rise massively in value as they are consistent IPD winners (Belotti, Ings and Moreno spring to mind). Anything to stretch the market further can only be a good thing.



  • @Millerman said in Stuck in a FI Nightmare? - Help is here....:

    Not to sound lazy - but im gonna be lazy and ask.

    Would it be worth a one of two liner summing up the above which we can simply post on our social media that says the same as everyone elses....that way I think they will get the point.

    Does that make sense? We can just copy and paste and FI will see the same message over and over again?

    It only takes 30 seconds to read - summarizing it further will simply dilute the magnificence of the post - top work @Geronimo159387



  • @Geronimo159387
    Devils advocate time.

    The IPDs were brought in specifically for short term trading and to bring liquidity to that part of the market. They aren't meant to be long term holds. If anything people refreshing then by buying and selling is generating the liquidity which is the whole point. It may well be harder to sell if you do something like this.

    I don't think this is a good idea sorry.

    If they want to make some form of IPD payout part of the long term dividend structure (possibly anytime someone scores twice in a game) then that's fine but these are meant to be short term.

    Aware I will get a flood of down votes but I just don't think this is how they should work. Sorry.



  • @SDOAFIT said in Stuck in a FI Nightmare? - Help is here....:

    @Geronimo159387
    Devils advocate time.

    The IPDs were brought in specifically for short term trading and to bring liquidity to that part of the market. They aren't meant to be long term holds. If anything people refreshing then by buying and selling is generating the liquidity which is the whole point. It may well be harder to sell if you do something like this.

    I don't think this is a good idea sorry.

    If they want to make some form of IPD payout part of the long term dividend structure (possibly anytime someone scores twice in a game) then that's fine but these are meant to be short term.

    Aware I will get a flood of down votes but I just don't think this is how they should work. Sorry.

    Good points but it is short term trading, just not using the market (at least whilst there's insufficient depth & liquidity to support it) to facilitate the eligibility. IPD's currently only last 30 days, so to benefit, need to be refreshed & generate FI commission to fund them but whether that's via market or not is only coincidental.

    Sellers will still be able to find buyers who want to chase IPD's, just in some instances the same trader will effectively be playing both sides of the trade. Making playing for IPD's easier & more attractive will actually increase overall demand for this section of players, so selling should be easier & make for better/fairer prices (thus shrinking spreads) than currently available. The fundamental problem is lack of liquidity & market depth but those can only be solved in the medium/long term through market growth, Market Makers could have provided a temporary solution but clearly lack the understanding or firepower to make sufficient difference, given their recent woeful track record.

    Just playing devils advocate; What's the alternative? To see 80-90% of players stagnant & with simply no reason to buy or hold them (effectively totally worthless), which is clearly not in FI, sellers or buyers interest. Over time market growth will make this non-market option redundant & going via market will become the norm but it's just simply not possible in most cases at present & risks seeing IPD trading totally die before sufficient growth, liquidity & confidence arrives to resuscitate it. Having only 300/400 players worth trading will cause serious platform risk IMO & ought to be avoided at all cost.



  • @qwertqwert I meant to put on Twatter etc...I did read it, I read it all, and thats why I said can someone summer.....oh never mind #sigh



  • Great post and I fully support a non market refresh option, I couldn’t have put it better than the original poster.

    This will definitely help 85% of the market players.

    For a £1 regular goal scorer maybe aged 30, their CA is limited, maybe they don’t score enough to win PB/MB/TOTM but you could just refresh every 30 days for IPD without needing a competitive counterparty to match your sell offer.

    Currently you need to factor in commission and also the spread between buying and selling price. This sometimes makes it not worth recycling a player.

    A non market refresh option would make it more affordable to refresh players and ultimately have more of your portfolio making money for you and make FI more enjoyable.

    It’s a no brainier for me and the more support this gets the better.



  • Great post and something I have been calling for a long time. FI mentioned an option to recycle on a recent comms so it is something that they are aware of.

    I agree - pressure from the community will get this moving.

    Lets see if a date is given in the upcoming communication and if not then we should all email FI for answers. Also whoever gets in to the trader panel should bring it up as well.

    It is about time FI deliver on promises to developments and this is one that will really benefit everyone.



  • @Millerman said in Stuck in a FI Nightmare? - Help is here....:

    @qwertqwert I meant to put on Twatter etc...I did read it, I read it all, and thats why I said can someone summer.....oh never mind #sigh

    If you want to put it on there perhaps use the screenshot below and and tag football index in on it - that applies to anyone else - i think this is worth spreading to as many people as possible.

    9a1aa324-8a6e-4775-aab4-f742829a0c87-image.png



  • i don't see how this works. people holding shares = less liquidity

    and in terms of 'refresh' FI wont take 2% to pay you 8-10% its mad.



  • @Coriolanus

    Making IPDs more attractive & accessible means traders wanting to buy/own/hold more = increased demand, liquidity & price, giving sellers a better/fairer exit price.
    I did point out FI could introduce flexible/higher pricing or limiting availability to balance the increased payout liability. Ultimately those excess returns will drive up prices (which benefits everyone) as buyers chase the ROI which will reduce such yields to fair value.

    Have you any suggestions how FI could increase liquidity, depth, confidence & trust in the current fragile, nervous & stagnant marketplace?



  • @Geronimo159387 yeah when they removed IS the risk increased massively to the point players are overvalued. bid zones and childlock on sell orders is just creating a slow death.. which means months of stagnation/drops and more importantly poor psychological impact on the market.

    'black sunday' was half way there in fixing the problem... we saw a crash and then prices started to come up and dismay lead to relief...then FI got involved and all those people who want a fair market were disillusioned again and quit.

    simple solution - remove bid zones, allow sell orders. Let us get on with finding fair value. Allow us to bid and offer at the same time on players (doubles liquidity). Dont take our cash at point of bid (increases image of liquidity as more open bids at any given time).

    Might be a big quick crash ...but then every day will see a totally new mentality because we would be outbidding each other from the bottom up, instead of undercutting from the top down... and our port values would be going up from a low figure daily, instead of down from a high figure. the positivity would cause exponential recovery.

    no pain = no gain


Log in to reply