An amnesty period



  • I've been away a few weeks from FI in general due to some outside personal circumstances. Today is the first day in a while I have been able to check things out. I saw my dividend pot and felt great. I then saw my port value and my heart sank. Deeply. Reading through comments today there seems to be two common opposing thoughts

    1. Market prices are dead , the Index is doomed but how can I sell a these prices?
    2. Prices are amazing and yields are fantastic, Buy buy buy.

    Issue is, to get involved in point 2 you need to sell at low price (unless you have fresh cash but lets assume not for this purposes). Now I'm not an aggressive trader. I look at my port and there is about 25% of value sitting heavy in the red. Couple are bad buys, some were just bought in a different market. And I'm just waiting for the market to grow to an acceptable price and then sell them off. Issue is, I reckon most traders think like this. S there is huge capital sitting around waiting for market to grow, but market won't start growing till it gets moving. And yeah, I could employ an aggressive strategy by selling them to get on other players at low prices, but that's just not the way I work. And I reckon that's not how most work. Fairplay to those that do, but we need to accept there are many different mindsets and strategies.

    I think FI now need to give us a chance to get out of some of these deep red players. It is a last resort as it is market interference, but clearly nothing else is working.

    What I suggest is that FI give us a 24 hour amnesty period where they offer all players in the red a price determined by their average price between April-August. Up to a maximum value of your original stake. The condition is, anyone using this button is unable to withdraw the money, and must reinvest it.

    This will give us a chance to reset our ports. I've seen FI communicate that prices are a 'readjustment'. And yeah they are damn right. A hell of a readjustment! But we haven't had a chance to reset our ports to go along with this price readjustment. Given nothing else is working, let's reset our ports, get some money out of holds, and get things moving again. It isn't a silver bullet, but I reckon there are tens of millions stuck in deep red holds that people want out on, but refuse to sell.

    I'm sure there are issues with this approach and would love to hear them



  • @Dr-Jan-Itor

    +1

    Great suggestion!



  • Yeah i really like this idea!



  • Do you know what angers me ?
    The word readjustment .... let's say that FI sold us a player at 5 ....then they thought oh well now traders will readjust the prices .... their pocket have not been affected at all by their readjustment if they were working towards order books they should have capped players prices because we all predicted a crash at least the fall would have been shorter ...no they were advertising sancho and bring on twitter £14 and £10 ( for clarity I didn't hold any of them )
    I don't want to say it but maybe some of the users on here weren't all so wrong after all ..... ( I never thought I would say this )



  • Why reward those with players in the 'red' a get out? They might be green in 1-2 months. Let's take Jota's graph.IMG_6629.PNG

    What is visible here is a player who was 'out of favour'; I think there may even be a thread on Jota somewhere on here. He often had no IS price and many would be stuck with him. One month ago (October 5th) his buy price was 1.48 and his IS was 1.15.

    Even if you market bought (and you wouldn't have); you are looking at a nice 40p rise on the IS price or a 70p rise if you had sold when he was flying through the ticker on Tuesday night. If you had bid somewhere in the 1.15 region - you are looking at a 70p rise on the current IS price or a £1 rise if you market sold. That is nearly a 100% ROI for holding him for one month.

    Countless examples of this with other players who have spiked on the back of good performances. Whilst I appreciate that it isn't exactly enjoyable looking at a player in the red, you have the opportunity to win dividends on them AND when the spike inevitably comes you can sell them. Trading is a game of patience, there is a clear lack of it on here & why I very rarely come on here.

    I cannot stress enough how much timing a sale is crucial; sometimes you have to forgo the dividends to get out on a player. Look at Plea - his IS went up to the 1.13 mark the other night but now you can re-buy him with a bid for approx 0.83. If you are in it for the short-term game, sacrifice your dividends. If you are a long-term holder, be patient. Pick up the dividends on your way. Choose an exit point, and exit when that comes around.

    If FI allow this 'exit' for bad trades, or impatient traders then quite frankly I give up.



  • @Dr-Jan-Itor Will not be implemented by FI. If they were to do this it would further lose the integrity of the product. Right now the platform needs to stabilise and improve their profile to new users. Be patient. There are plenty of options out there to make decent money. You say you have made a good amount of dividends recently, try and invest in those players who guarantee returns.

    Messi is the perfect investment right now. 👍🏼



  • Can you imagine if people were given an out on heavily red trades? Every time any adverse event happened traders would be screaming for a repeat. From a selfish perspective I’d obviously love an out on a few of my holds, but I can’t see how it’s workable or conducive to long term credibility and growth.



  • @Dr-Jan-Itor

    The problem you're highlighting is the current lack of liquidity, the solution is easy; allow us to be our own liquidity providers, as LP1's effort has been a total disaster.

    My non-market IPD refresh button or allowing traders to buy & sell a player to our self (effectively being a market maker) whilst paying commission to FI both achieve the same thing, renew IPD eligibility. Why is this important;

    1. It brings value to currently worthless, illiquid holds, currently the majority of players on the index, so they are attractive to both buy & hold (as they can generate dividend income) which means fewer sellers, more buyers & ultimately rising prices.

    2. It generates a small commission boost for FI but triggers IPD payouts to traders who can use those new funds to buy further players, adding market liquidity, providing sellers an exit & generating more trading activity which increases confidence, liquidity, commission & eventually prices.

    The last thing you would do to a fragile, nervous, stagnant, illiquid market is impose a "buyers tax" as even a school aged economist would recognise that would do more harm than good, you can work out which option FI have chosen.



  • @Highfields96 said in An amnesty period:

    Why reward those with players in the 'red' a get out? They might be green in 1-2 months. Let's take Jota's graph.IMG_6629.PNG

    What is visible here is a player who was 'out of favour'; I think there may even be a thread on Jota somewhere on here. He often had no IS price and many would be stuck with him. One month ago (October 5th) his buy price was 1.48 and his IS was 1.15.

    Even if you market bought (and you wouldn't have); you are looking at a nice 40p rise on the IS price or a 70p rise if you had sold when he was flying through the ticker on Tuesday night. If you had bid somewhere in the 1.15 region - you are looking at a 70p rise on the current IS price or a £1 rise if you market sold. That is nearly a 100% ROI for holding him for one month.

    Countless examples of this with other players who have spiked on the back of good performances. Whilst I appreciate that it isn't exactly enjoyable looking at a player in the red, you have the opportunity to win dividends on them AND when the spike inevitably comes you can sell them. Trading is a game of patience, there is a clear lack of it on here & why I very rarely come on here.

    I cannot stress enough how much timing a sale is crucial; sometimes you have to forgo the dividends to get out on a player. Look at Plea - his IS went up to the 1.13 mark the other night but now you can re-buy him with a bid for approx 0.83. If you are in it for the short-term game, sacrifice your dividends. If you are a long-term holder, be patient. Pick up the dividends on your way. Choose an exit point, and exit when that comes around.

    If FI allow this 'exit' for bad trades, or impatient traders then quite frankly I give up.

    Thanks for your response I think Jota actually a good example to prove my point. Lets sat for example you bought 100 futures in a 2 quid player 4 months ago. Today that player can be sold for 1.15 (lots of players with this likelyhood). You sell your 100 at a 85 quid loss to get in Jota. You buy 100 at 1.15. Jota then has an incredible month, in the top % for growth. You could probably sell him today after an incredible run of form at 2 quid. Back to where you were anyway. Of course he may grow from here even further. But this is a player having an exeptional month. And if he didn't have a good month this month, you would still be 85 quid down. It's a high risk strategy that I just don't think works for most. It can certainly pay off, but it is rarer without liquidity.

    For those that are patient and don't use the amnesty, i bet they would have seen an even higher spike for Jota. Let's not forget that he has hit way higher peaks then this. Without more liquidity, spikes for players are less frequent and less intense.



  • @Sol said in An amnesty period:

    @Dr-Jan-Itor Will not be implemented by FI. If they were to do this it would further lose the integrity of the product. Right now the platform needs to stabilise and improve their profile to new users. Be patient. There are plenty of options out there to make decent money. You say you have made a good amount of dividends recently, try and invest in those players who guarantee returns.

    Messi is the perfect investment right now. 👍🏼

    Yeah I get the patience argument, and trust me I am. I just want to drill a little deeper on why patience will pay off. If there is a huge amount of money stuck in big red holds, then there is no guarantee the market will rise for most players. If we are relying on new cash, that's fine. But when I look at the 'values matched' trajectory, there doesn't seem to be any change there which might mean the new cash coming in is simply too small. I would love an update on when big investors or MMs will be entering. Patience is good and important, but it needs to be attached a bit more to something tangible rather then simply expecting the market to lift on its own with time.



  • @Dr-Jan-Itor I understand where you're coming from but if you say 'lots of players with this likelyhood' (which I don't doubt, why would FI ever take part in something like this)?

    If I only bought Jota 4 months ago, I'd be understanding the risk. Jota was still at Wolves & a bit part player - £2 probably represented his potential and I'd be hoping for a few good dividend wins/performances to keep his price stable & produce an income. I wouldn't be looking at Jota having 100% CA and going to £4. No-one other than the trader that sold has caused that loss through sheer impatience. You're 11% into your hold of Jota and you're taking a nearly 50% loss?

    What I am saying, is players are presenting themselves to sell. Any trader needs to time it better, and not let greed (div win) take over them if they want out of that player. I did this with Jimenez, held him after the 5x promo. Looked at upcoming fixtures and identified a couple of bronze days he had a realistic chance of winning. When I found a bid that matched by realistic exit I sold. I sacrificed dividends that night, but I got out.

    If I had stuck firm with my buy, knowing the reasons I bought them then I would currently be taking the dividends on Jota & his price has recovered to roughly where I bought.



  • @R9inter I really hope you're not gonna be like the people on deal or no deal who have already took the bankers offer and then are hoping for a shit outcome ;)



  • I don't think the "if FI do it once, then they will have to keep doing it" argument holds water, because what has occurred is both exceptionally unique and is driven by FI's changes.

    If they did something like this, where money was retained as credit, then it would restore trust and create a huge amount of liquidity.

    However a fool and their money is easily separated so don't massively trust people who are in trouble to spend any credit wisely, so we would probably end up in a similar situation a few months down the line.

    Before any drastic steps like this are taken. Educate the customer base!



  • Give Jota a week and he will be around 30p a share down.



  • So if you have a bad buy you should be entitled to a refund? For me I have always gone for PB, MB and potential transfers and it has gone well for me. Never thought about cap app was always about who is gonna make that money back in Divs and it seems to have gone well. People were pumping the likes of Greenwood, Foden, Cherki and Mbappe and I was always like why would I buy them when they have won nothing, just cause they are potential super stars doesn't mean there a good buy on here.

    Anyway, for me the major issue on here is patience. After a week of not wining divs people want to sell there 3 year bet up



  • @howsthebacon no I genuinely hope it works out for you guys ,if they get the finished product in and it still have confidence I will happily be back , just monitoring my last player IS for now he hasn't got one to be fair I bought him under the old system as a punt but he turned out to be awful haha .
    I dont wish nothing bad yo FI just hope that people are careful and make informed choices rather than listen to people ...non of us know how it will be 3 months down the line to be fair



  • @Millerman said in An amnesty period:

    Give Jota a week and he will be around 30p a share down.

    Not if he keeps performing the way he is and his PB stats start to look impressive



  • @Millerman said in An amnesty period:

    Give Jota a week and he will be around 30p a share down.

    That is true but he could also rise 50p again at some point within 2 years.
    Everything revolves around how patient people are.



  • @Pez I don't agree mate, FI has changed totally. before the changes the market was one where you could pick up a cheap young talent like Nicolo Barella or Ismaila Sarr and watch him rise in value every time they had a good game, and also lose when he didn't. but overall you would see profit on your investment.
    However now there is no reward for a hold playing well as the market value doesn't reflect that, all that is available now is dividends and that is such an elite group of players that there is no chance of making your investment money back on younger talent.
    My port is full of these type of players who were 90% in the green before the changes, all are now in the red and no option to sell, I have held onto all my port waiting for the market to change and go in the right direction but that never seems to come but the drop in prices do so patience is not the problem. Not been able to sell players who NOW have no chance of making gains or divs when they did before is the problem



  • @Dr-Jan-Itor so basically if you have bought players and they're in the red because they ain't doing as well as you thought you want the money to invest in other players. I thought you were having a laugh but your serious.? Is your mum still wiping your arse for you? You cant expect people to bail you out through life bud.!


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