Potential Solution - Thoughts
I have been thinking about all the issues and falling markets, followed by offers and rockets then more crashes followed by more offers.
Instant sell had to be removed in its old form and this was obviously the catalyst for everything that has happened since - with a dose of miss management, lack of liquidity and covid!
Even when full order books/Nasdaq is in place I struggle to see how this trend will end as it does not take much for panic to set in so my solution seems quite obvious.
Each year on conclusion of the season (champions league final) FI offer instant sell for 1 week only on all players based upon there market sell price. This would be say 85% for the top players reducing to say 70% for riskier purchases. Those retiring or moving to a non PB league may receive a smaller payment say 25%
This surly would ensure that the spreads on most players would remain above 85% for the majority of the season and therefore solving the liquidity issues. It would enable FI to continue to rake in Commission and increase dividends without having to continually having to waste money on promotions.
Not perfect yet and will need tweaking but what do you think?
Lukeroro last edited by
@Fletch the solution is to stop messing with the market, stop moving the goal posts and let this play out. The dividends are available. The aim of the game is still there. And the prices are cheap. When people see this and when there is more certainty with Nasdaq+Order Books as well as simply the world returning to some normality, prices will rise.
For now, there is no solution other than time.
Announce tiered PB asap
Also increase pay out for TOTM
Whatever the solution is, I think it needs to be a one off solution. I agree I think we are too far gone now for full order books to solve it. My issue with this one is that it promotes riskier trading. If you know you will eventually be given an out at end of season, then you are more likely to load into a bad hold. I also think it might cause weird mechanics as we approach end of season.
The problem now in my opinion is that the fundamental market structure has changed, causing some decent holds to go seriously into the red. FI even called a value recalibrating or words to that effect. Yet many players in peoples ports were bought before that, so they have not had a chance to recalibrate their ports either, leaving to a stand off where many traders refuse to sell at these prices (some do of course).
I believe whatever the solution is will have to give people a chance to reset their ports. But once done, then that is it. Many ways to do that. I suggested one the other day. This solution as a one off would also do that. Then we can all go forward with a much more liquid Index
Go back to the old formula, but let users fill the set price IS waiting lists
Just implement what they said they would do, there is no point releasing half a product!!!
What the hell is the hold up with proper order books that show depth and let you bid and list at the same time.
Just do it and let the market sort itself out................
@trig they must be scared to release it, it will be so thin imo it will scare traders further. But constant dithering fucking about is equally just as bad. It’s like mind games..
@OneBigHoliday if they dont just get on with it when are they ever going to do it, they have to bite the bullet at some point.
@Fletch dont think it would necessarily mean tight spreads all season, just towards the end of the season.....it would also likely cause a host of delisting just before the champs league final to raise the buy price and therefore 'the out'
@trig I agree, I don’t think they know what to do, they keep spending time/money on these podcasts & for what!! Players listed still who are retired... it’s a mess.
Get a finished product & then add in the podcasts etc.
It’s a great concept, poorly implemented..the damage being done I can only ever see it being a niche platform at best.
@OneBigHoliday totally agree, when you can see only 3.5k active users on a gold match day you have a problem.
They want to take on the big boys with admittedly a different version of gambling. However if Whill or Bet365 etc had that amount of active betters on a match day they would be done.............
@trig I know, I was alarmed at 3.5k very few users with large amounts in for many.
So growth has obviously been more users ploughing more in, which kind of goes against the responsible gambling tag, people say it’s a 3yr bet, on paper it is, but as most presumably come from trad betting background I doubt many will hold for that length of time, just look at society, we all want it now.
I think they need a more simple product, that all age groups can grasp & buy into.
To give people an understanding of the numbers, I have been involved running a Last Man Standing in a social club in Belfast that had 1000 people involved............ a huge company that sponsors to big English football clubs has 3500 users on a matchday...............
Gregolocky last edited by
@trig what was the top prize in the Lms? I ran one myself for 3 years with top prize 500, 10 quid entry. For the local soccer club, it was probably the best fundraiser cause it was up to the punter who pick wrong team you’re out
Dan The Man last edited by Dan The Man
Seems to me the main first step should be just to end bidding or at least cap it to 5% (maybe 10%).
Having the ability to undercut each other is what's killing the market. I aren't paying full price for a player, if I can buy him for 60% of his price.
And I won't be holding a player, if I can sell out of him today, and buy back in to him today for 10p lower, often, simply by just selling my shares to clear the latest bids then putting in the lowest bid possible.
I remember when I first heard Order Books were coming. My understanding at the time, was that they would let you bid between the spreads and back then, that made sense because 10% was considered a really high spread, seen in dire circumstances. Many of the spreads were 2-5%. The logic seemed that bidding would help offset your commission and maybe help you get in 2-3% cheaper.
Last week I bought Thiago Silva for 20p, his price tag is 45p. That means the second I bought him, I was technically 125% up. It's just bollox. Don't get me wrong, a few of us can probably make some decent profits out of that kind of system but if 90% of users think it's boring and don't know how to use the system, or where to find the right tools to help them.... or have the time to put into that level of trading... what's the point of it all?
I know, bidding was meant as a liquidity solver, but 60% bidding... that's just savage.
@Dan-The-Man if you try and cap the market or restrict it there will never be an open market to make good profits? And if you restrict it to 5% or 10% what will happen as you will end up with a whole load of players with no sell price. Fi keep trying to dig themselves out by doing this and that shit promos etc but they are digging themselves into a deeper mess. The best thing They can do is no restriction on bids leave it for 6months then its sink or swim time!
Why cant they just raise the bid zone to 5-10% under market buy
@Tom77 what so players miss out on picking up some bargains? Like I said you would have 80% with no sell price. Market got to fall a long way then the spreads would narrow is my thoughts make it more competitive for bidding!
Dan The Man last edited by Dan The Man
@Dan-The-Man if you try and cap the market or restrict it there will never be an open market to make good profits?
We all made fantastic profits, long before the bidding system came in.
And if you restrict it to 5% or 10% what will happen as you will end up with a whole load of players with no sell price.
I don't agree with you on that but there's already a crazy amount of players who don't have an IS value.
Mbappe, Neymar, Kimmich, Haaland, Fati, KDB, Greenwood, Foden, Sterling, Camavinga, Belliingham, Gnabry, Havertz, Cherki, Depay, Sane, Alphonso Davies, Dybala, Salah, Reece James, Hakimi.
That's 21 of the top 30 without an IS price.
Fi keep trying to dig themselves out by doing this and that shit promos etc but they are digging themselves into a deeper mess. The best thing They can do is no restriction on bids leave it for 6months then its sink or swim time!
That's madness mate. You're sounding like the guy advocating we all get COVID and whoever dies tough luck. I get that we're all fed up of the crashes, I really do, but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
There's no need to jump to the extreme to save this, there are plenty of things they can do. For example, even if they just update their graphs to track Instant Sell price, it would help people understand the volatility on the market. They've ran training seminars but why the hell weren't they recorded and sent to every user? Why make it a specialised, invite, sign up deal at a specific time? In the age of YouTube that makes no sense.
There are lots and I mean lots of ways they can turn this around, the question is... does it suit them to do that? Right now, they have our money, the more crashes the better for them financially.
The worrying sign is that we’ve heard nothing from Adam an FI absolutely NOTHING. Market is on its knees an there nowhere to be seen/heard