FI forgot their punters



  • OK, so this is a long post.... Discuss or ignore, agree or disagree. I don't mind I just needed to say it. Happy to be told I'm wrong it doesn't bother me. We are all stuck here together anyway at the moment we might as well say our pieces 不

    I believe FI misjudged their effect on the gambling industry. They believed that their community was now made up largely of investment gamblers rather than traditional punters and this is the biggest reason for the current situation.
    The removal of IS from a business point of view was a no brainer in the minds of FI. Remove their liability in case there was a mass exodus of customers leaving the platform and dumping the shares back on them.
    But that would never have happened - because we are all gamblers! And guess what? The majority of us were winning! Even though we should leave with our profits, the thought process is actually: why leave when we are finally on to a winner and can still make more money!
    Even those that were losing due to poor football knowledge or silly trades at silly times still had the safety net of IS to stick around and chase their losses (we shouldn't do that either but I repeat, we are gamblers.....)
    The truth is that their liability on paper was terrible, but in reality it was minimal. There is no way most of us would have left what was a thriving platform with significant growth still achievable.
    We placed our bets at odds we were happy with at the time.
    Since then FI, whilst holding all of our stakes, have decided to completely change the platform, therefore dramatically changing the odds of our bets.
    As a community of gamblers, we are now left to fend for ourselves and to make 1 of 2 choices- Either cut our enforced losses and leave, or chase our enforced losses and stay, hoping that the company will succeed essentially from scratch again with its new direction.

    Many have already taken the first option. Many I would suggest that joined in the last 6-8 months, whose ports have been annihilated for no fault of their own and were having to absorb huge losses already.
    Anybody who invested heavily in the months leading up to the introduction of offers must be left thinking they were completely conned. Its difficult to disagree with them quite frankly. They were sold a 3 year bet that got completely altered in the space of a few weeks....

    Those of us that remain have also had to absorb huge hits to our ports and we now have to make our own judgements as to how this new product will be received long-term.
    No wonder we are all fighting each other for the best prices on players. (I don't see why this would ever stop either, a gambler is always looking for better odds, and bigger returns, and we have nobody else to regulate us now....)

    FI always intended for their product to be used by gamblers with the investment mindset. That's the niche. They grossly overestimated how many of their customer base had converted to this mindset when deciding to introduce order books (I also overestimated how many had this mindset, hence why I'm still here 不)

    People always say that 'dividends underpin the market'. Well they absolutely should, and do, when the market is full of investment gamblers. Everybody with this mindset was delighted with the new dividend table because, yes, the yields are brilliant.

    Had we all had the investor mindset then the market would never have crashed after the introduction of offers went live. There would still have been an 'adjustment' because of covid obviously, but overall players spreads would have began to tighten and by this point their prices would have increased because nobody would have sold their goldmines for next to nothing!

    But the market was saturated with traditional gamblers that had been lured in on FI's journey by their constant bonus offers and mainly, the introduction of IPD's. I'm absolutely certain FI were convinced that this new influx of traders could be swayed fron their punters tactics in favour of investment strategy.
    In essence, see the brilliance of the concept first hand with short-term sweeteners and then realise the benefits of long-term trading and fall for it.

    For the punters, however, the dividends were simply the bet. 'I bet that this player will win x amount of dividends and I therefore bet that his value will also increase over the time that I own shares in him'.
    IS underpinned the traditional gambling market, in the same way you can cash out an accumulator for example.
    What was seen as a 'safe bet' with an easy exit, even at a loss, has now been turned into a sure loser out of nowhere and no gambler wants a piece of that.
    IPD's are now defunct on most of the players people would likely back. The spreads are ridiculous. How do you now lure traditional punters back in (I'm guessing the 5x IPD was to try to prevent them leaving. It papered over the spreads but was clearly unsustainable).

    Then you have the people who were always searching for something like FI. I'd put myself in that category. I craved a platform where I could use my normally pointless football knowledge. Always been useless at normal betting but really good at spotting the next big thing. Now I could make money on that!
    I joined 3 and a half years ago. I had no big money to put in here during the boom period, but deposited what I could because I firmly believed in the concept. I've managed to invest larger sums along the way, the last was in June, the biggest before the share split. Again I backed the future of the concept and the company with my own cash, just like many of us did on here did, and we were richly rewarded.
    My deposits now total 5 figures.
    Slowly, gradually (with much research and many mistakes along the way) over that 3 and a bit year period, my portfolio was showing an IS value of over 150% ROI.
    I never had any intention of leaving and believed in the direction the company was headed. I believed they could deliver, and I believed, more than anything, in the concept of the index.
    I still do not want to leave.
    I still believe this can be a success, but after backing this company for all this time, seeing all my hard work and most of my profit wiped out in a 2/3 month stretch has worn me out.
    Do I have the strength or inclination to start from scratch again, under completely different rules of a new game? I don't know.
    FI are now asking us long-term traders to back them again, in the middle of a global pandemic, after kicking us all in the balls for our previous loyalty.
    Oh, and they aren't asking us, they're forcing us, because right now even if we don't have the strength to 'go again', there is no way out because we can't sell.
    I still consider myself extremely lucky by the way. I have recouped a fair chunk of my original investment and believe something will shift that will allow me wiggle room to get to the rest.
    But if it doesn't, hell that's on me, it was my choice to gamble it!
    The real sadness for me is what once was the most enjoyable way for me to spend my money and my weekends is now just hard work and boredom.
    Still think it can be fixed, but it will take a lot of good decisions from FI in the coming weeks (and I have no bright ideas to be honest!) and a lot of fresh investment from people not burned by the journey so far.
    Fingers crossed, and good luck to everyone on here going forward. I've enjoyed reading all your posts over the last few years despite not being an active contributor!
    All your views should be considered highly important to the company at this time and all others.
    And if none of this made any sense then oh well, at least it passed my morning at work composing it 不



  • @doublesfordough great post qnd I believe that's how many people feel right now , this is the kind of posts that I appreciate that looks at the situation from a factual point of view rather than a hope



  • I think the sentiment that people are losing confidence in FI's plans is shared on here. They have an idea of what their end game looks like but don't seem to have a clear path on how they are going to deliver it - each change at the moment is delayed and/or needs some redressing soon after implementation. And thier communications, like most start ups, is scattergun - they never commit to dates and appear slow to react to the current state of the market, even if that is not the case behind the scenes. The notion of FI is still appealing but there's a concern that the people in charge aren't going to be able to realise its potential.



  • It's quite simple. I joined FI to make my money work, it was easy back then and enjoyable along the way. That is no longer the case so I take my money elsewhere.

    There is no doubt in my mind that they've taken punters for granted and that is their biggest mistake imo. They thought people would keep throwing money at it regardless. The fact they never properly acknowledged or addressed the consequences of removing IS is of very low character in my book and that is where it all starts.

    Can they turn it around? Possibly but I'm not going to have them use my money to do so specially if they are in their strongest financial position ever as they say



  • @doublesfordough Great Post- felt like I was reading exactly what I've been thinking and feeling recently.



  • @doublesfordough a very good assessment of the situation.

    If I could only add an angle is that in the wake of the pandemic we were actually taking quite a lot of money out until if you remember FI forced wider spread to keep our money tight in.

    I believe that might have been for them a wake up call that ultimately we could have sent the company tits up simply taking our money out of it simultaneously at any point in time with the IS.

    Now, have they as a consequence of that accelerated their plans for removing IS and therefore messed it up or we would have ended up in this situation anyway God knows...



  • FI - Surely they will have to do something? I mean half the top 200 players have no sell price.. Their silence is deafening at the moment but as its the weekend will allow them that..
    Just seems a complete mess at the moment..
    70 odd players in my portfolio over 20 of which have no sell price so stuck like everyone else..



  • I think their main response is the updates to the system. If that doesn't work, there'll have to be a re-think or reset to a degree.



  • They will just give another update " we are aware of what is happening acknowledge your concerns ,we are working on it ,in the main time top up there is immense value " a few rockets slapped left right and centre qnd a picture of Adam Cole in his mankini



  • @R9inter said in FI forgot their punters:

    They will just give another update " we are aware of what is happening acknowledge your concerns ,we are working on it ,in the main time top up there is immense value " a few rockets slapped left right and centre qnd a picture of Adam Cole in his mankini

    Lol



  • Absolutely spot on post... I've traded my way to over 100% roi in nearly 2 years, it's now nearly gone, I had a varied portfolio with high end , low end , youth and transfer bound players, I've consistently had to alter strategies in the last year, to try and keep afloat of the constant changes made by FI , This was my kind of platform, probably not the best trader but not the worst and I could constantly make a few quid, FI wanted to take the product forward but in the process of order books and no is have made the product unpalatable to the guys that want to throw a few quid in, now as soon as there is the smallest spike in players people use it as a get out. I've made bad trades, who doesn't but this actually feels as though its FI doing and not mine. My choices are to sit it out in hope it turns around or get out with around what I've put in.

    Currently it's a trading platform in which you cant actually trade



  • @SYG76 said in FI forgot their punters:

    Currently it's a trading platform in which you cant actually trade

    Nail on the head....



  • @SYG76 Your last scentence says it all in a nutshell.
    No point buying and little point selling unless you take a massive hit.
    This product is broken atm and we need a fix pretty soonish.



  • Excellent post.

    I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't classify myself as a gambler, but I think a lot of your comments still apply.

    I don't generally bet, maybe once a year on the grand national and maybe on the boxing if I'm watching a big PPV with friends. Also play poker once a month with a group of mates, but it's a friendly game for 瞿20 each and more an excuse to catch up.

    What I do, do however is invest and I approach FI from that point of view (I'm not trying to sound like a big shot when I say this, I'm not loaded and my investments are generally long term, I still have to do a normal day job to pay the bills). So when the IS was removed I thought about the impact on my risk and realised that either prices would have to fall, or dividends would have to go up for it to be appealing to me. I'm not trying to sound clever after the event as I admit that I did underestimate the impact but I definitely saw it coming.

    Because I invest across various assets classes I was able to compare FI with other investments and suddenly FI was less attractive than some of them, so I pulled a fair bit of money out. I probably would have pulled more out, but due to Covid everything else was also a bit uncertain so I wasn't completely sure where else to put it.

    I don't know how many other users are like me, as opposed to traditional gamblers who converted to FI, but anyone who invests across multiple platforms will have the ability to compare those platforms and will always be looking to balance risk with return. While dividends have gone up they've not gone up by enough to balance out the risk and that's why I believe people like me have pulled their money out.



  • @GeoffS said in FI forgot their punters:

    Excellent post.

    I can only speak for myself but I wouldn't classify myself as a gambler, but I think a lot of your comments still apply.

    I don't generally bet, maybe once a year on the grand national and maybe on the boxing if I'm watching a big PPV with friends. Also play poker once a month with friends, but it's a friendly game for 瞿20 each and more an excuse to catch up.

    What I do, do however is invest and I approach FI from that point of view (I'm not trying to sound like a big shot when I say this, I'm not loaded and my investments are generally long term, I still have to do a normal day job to pay the bills). So when the IS was removed I thought about the impact on my risk and realised that either prices would have to fall, or dividends would have to go up for it to be appealing to me. I'm not trying to sound clever after the event as I admit that I did underestimate the impact but I definitely saw it coming.

    Because I invest across various assets classes I was able to compare FI with other investments and suddenly FI was less attractive than some of them, so I pulled a fair bit of money out. I probably would have pulled more out, but due to Covid everything else was also a bit uncertain so I wasn't completely sure where else to put it.

    I don't know how many other users are like me, as opposed to traditional gamblers who converted to FI, but anyone who invests across multiple platforms will have the ability to compare those platforms and will always be looking to balance risk with return. While dividends have gone up they've not gone up by enough to balance out the risk and that's why I believe people like me have pulled their money out.

    I used to have my money in the stock market via unit trusts (5-figure) but put it all in here except for about 瞿1k in crypto. I've been here since August 2018, and the returns are unrivalled elsewhere. However, I'm waiting until full OB is installed and NASDAQ and I'll make my judgement of whether I'll stay or move on, then.



  • Do people think order book and Nasdaq will get the market moving again? Im a positive long term holder but normally theres a bonus period or similar on the horizon....what are we looking to?



  • @Brother-Seamus completely agree. The last straw for me with regards to confidence in the people in charge was the announcement of the buyers tax being imminent. As you say they back track and swerve all the time, let's hope they back track on that one!



  • @R9inter thanks



  • @Skinny absolutely. I hope to get my initial investment back and if possible will hang around with any profit I have left (might not be any 不). Will always be tempted to go back in big if they sort it out but will be more wary second time around



  • @BeanDrown thanks. Hope we see an upturn and some communication over the international break


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