When you buy back shares for ipds does it matter if your investment is currently losing your money

  • For example
    I buy 100 shares of x at £1.5 each
    After 30 days I receive £9 in ipd
    His price has depreciated to £1 per share
    After 30 days I sell and buy again to reactivate ipd does it matter that I lost money as X price went down £50 or would it still make sense to sell and then buy again

  • In that example you've lost £41 so yes
    When you sell for a 50p loss you've lost 50p per share (£50)
    If you're trading for IPDs you need to win enough dividends to pay for any commission and depreciation
    In this market if you're trading for IPDs you should look at players under 50p IMO

  • @NewUser464517 Commission is 2% buy and sell if I'm not mistaken so thats 4p you have to make to breakeven. If the player wins 9p IPDs again this month but drops by 5p or more then you're still selling for a loss.

  • This is where keepig a spreadsheet is handy. Yes you would lose that difference between the original stake of £1.50 and selling at £1, but received the IPD'S which you can calculate to come of that initial stake. You then re-buy at £1 but have to consider you have paid commision on selling and possibly buying. Don't let the initial 50p drop put you off as the difference would be the same (ie he goes to £1.25 you have an original loss of 25p per share but now shows as a 25p profit, all is the same price, this is where you need the spreadsheet) Hope that all makes sense

  • @NewUser464517 doesn't matter if you intend to continue refreshing and continuing picking up divs. As someone else has mentioned using a spreadsheet (transaction history can be downloaded from the website) is best, but you might be able to roughly track it in your head using the divs earned in your portfolio page

  • For me there is huge opportunity in the current market for IPD flipping. For example...

    A 50p player (of which there are many!) needs to deliver 25 IPD eligible goals or assists to cover their initial cost.
    With 50-60 games per season I think there are plenty of players 50p or below that can deliver these returns in a relatively short space of time.

    Assuming the market continues to drop and by the time this scenario plays out your capital sale value is 30p per share. This is a 60% profit on original outlay as effectively the sale value becomes the profit and your IPD divs cover your original outlay. Appreciate commissions have to be factored in but with bids /offers available then there are many ways to flip at break even or even a small profit to cover.

    Sell at original price and you’ve doubled your outlay.

    If the market picks up and you player increases in value then flipping becomes harder or less worthwhile but then the capital appreciation becomes the profit. Then you change your strategy accordingly.

    Any MB or PB is a further bonus.

    The only potential downside I see is that FI close the doors... however the more flipping there is, the more commission they earn therefore the less likely this scenario.

    Extreme scenario but.... Odion Ighalo needs 5 IPD goals to return his value. If he gets game time then that is possible within one 30 day period. With a Jan window close by and the possibility of a move to another PB league it could be a very quick ROI, not to mention Cap App, if you’re brave enough to take the gamble!!! (I’m not yet but he’s on the watchlist!!)

  • @FootballArgos I am pretty sure though that day I sold at £100 for 150 shares but then I bought 150 shares back for a £100 total then the price appreciated so 150 shares is now £160 I am still making £10 excluding divs commission £60-£50=£10 profit and ipd divs

  • @Meccavibez yeah but say I sold at £100 and bought back again commission would be £4 if I own 150 shares then I would get £3 per goal

  • @NewUser464517 No because you no longer have £150 you have £100, you lost £50 when you sold for a £50 loss

    If you bought 100 @ £1.50, then sold and re-bought 100 @ £1 then you'd still have 100 shares, just now the shares are worth less.

    Your balance for that whole trade would be:
    Bought 100 @ £1.50 -£150
    Commission 0.02£150 -£3
    IPDs 100
    £0.09 +£9
    Sold 100 @ £1 +£100
    Commission 0.02£100 -£2
    Bought 100 @ £1 -£100
    Commission 0.02
    £100 -£2

    So you've spent £157 including commission,
    received £9 IPDs and hold £100 worth of shares. So in this scenario you would need the player to earn £57 IPDs to breakeven.

  • This post is deleted!

  • @Meccavibez I think your logic is a bit off on this one. In these scenarios, the aim of refreshing is not to gain back all value lost to depreciation, but simply to minimise those losses a little. The £50 loss is irrelevant for the ipd refresh.

    Below is how I see these situations - for ease I'm going to assume that the price doesn't change over the 30day ipd window.

    No refresh
    No transaction at beginning of 30days. Then sell at end of 30day window for a £50 loss.
    Net is -£50

    Sell and rebuy at start of 30day window, and yes make a £50 loss (although as you have rebought the player, this loss is not final, it could still increase or decrease).
    Then say you earn net £5 through ipd (including refresh commission) over the next 30days.
    At end of 30 days you sell for £0 loss (as share price is the same as when you bought during the refresh)
    Net is -£45

    So in both scenarios there is a £50 loss from share price depreciation, but refreshing for ipd's has allowed a little of that value to be clawed back.

    As other commenters have said keeping a separate spreadsheet where original prices and outlays are recorded makes this much easier to keep track of than just using the FI website/app.

  • @Meccavibez yeah but if they rise back to normal price then I would of broke even in terms of how much I bought and sold them for

  • @NewUser464517 Yeah if they rise back to the buy price then your profit would be IPDs minus commission. I guess I misread your original question asking "does it matter if the price drops". If you've already factored in that loss then its a new trade at the new price

  • Being able to see market depth can actually mean you can make a profit when flipping for IPDs.

    For example if @NewUser464517 sells his 100 shares at £1 a share = £98 received. Depending on the market depth he'll be able to buy 100 shares of the same player at £0.95 each = £96.90 spent. This means there's an instant £1.10 profit, before the IPDs.

    It might take a bit of patience butt his is definitely the best technique to flip for IPDs, it's a bit harder to do with players who are slightly more expensive as the commission increases relatively to the price.

    It isn't as black and white as always losing 4% of the trade from commission.

  • Iv taken hits on players losing maybe £3 or more sometimes but if I buy back in straight away its irrelevant. It makes your port look better but obviously you have lost the money. If the price goes back up to where you bought you have broke even but your port says your in the green. It only hurts to sell if you sell at a loss and dont buy back or you sell and the price rockets in which case you are fuming.

  • @AndydfopT If you only sell say 10 to 25% of your hold on a player at any one time then you don't have the fear factor of missing the surge and being left fuming as the majority of your stake will increase - would be a great problem to have !!! I will let you know if it ever happens

  • @BrianR yes mate that's the way to play it

  • Amazes me the amount of people that don't take the time to either understand the index or read the rules

  • I bought mendy on the 21/11 he played yesterday I make that the 30th day is that correct any help would be nice contacted help desk they say the 30 days was up on the 19th that doesn’t add up to me

  • @Dan114114

    21st Nov counts as day one, so that's 11 days in November (21st - 31st) and then the 1st - 19th of Dec is the remaining 19 days to take it to 30 days

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