T&C's and Dividend payouts



  • Before I start I just want to say these are genuine questions on the back of comments I've seen across multiple threads recently. This isn't a everything is rosey post or a Mr.Positve post (so no arguing please), but I've got a lot of thoughts on the back of some comments and genuinely want to understand alternative thoughts / positions.

    There have been so many people talking about the changing of T&C's but I'm interested to understand what people expect? This isn't just FI and isn't unusual for all companies. Just the other day when I opened whatsapp I had a screen pop up and it's either accept our new T's & C's or stop using whatsapp. No option to continue using whatsapp on the old T's & C's for conversations that I already had in flight.

    I've also seen comments like " FI can't be run on terms and conditions." But how do you propose FI (and all companies) do run then? Terms and Conditions are the basis for all interactions surely?

    I get that some may question whether FI have stuck to their T's & C's at all times but that is another discussion.

    With dividends, I also question what people really expect with these going up or down. Thinking of other scenarios, Banks change the interest rates paid on accounts all the time, this happened on my childs account this month and they are under no obligation to continue paying the original interest rate on money that is already in the account. Shops can change how and when you can spend Gift cards. Companies change the amount of dividend payment dependent on performance. Why do people think / expect FI should be any different? Especially with things, in principle, spanning the length of 3 years.

    I get not all of my examples are necessarily 100% comparable but I do think comparisons can be drawn from them.

    Interested to know others thoughts / perspective.



  • Banks can change the interest rate but that doesn't reduce the value of money already deposited.

    If the bank were paying 5% and drop to 1%, your £100 would have been worth £105 next year and will now be worth £101 next year, but it is still worth £100 now.

    With FI, your £100 is now worth £70 and might be worth £20 in 30 days time. You have no idea how much it will be worth next year because they changed the old rules and haven't told you what the new ones are.

    A better example would be ordering a turkey from Tesco two days before Christmas and the delivery guy telling you that they have substituted it for a pack of light bulbs.



  • @Honeylight I dont really see how that answers any of the points raised. It just explains why some people might choose to put their money in a safe bank account and why some might choose to gamble or invest?



  • @Sherbet

    Worth bearing in mind that this is first time in the 5+ years that FI has been running that they’ve reduced dividends. Even when there were share spilts in the past, any reduction in dividend amounts was always offset by an increase in the number of futures in people’s portfolios.

    Plus FI published a dividend table last Summer which we were told would cover the 2020/21 season and only be reviewed the following season.

    Banks can of course amend interest rates, but not if they’ve stated they are fixed for 12 months!

    FI make it up as they go along, which is eroding some people’s confidence in them.

    They removed their in-house IS liability last year which increases risk for all traders and is the fundamental reason prices are lower now than 12 months ago - i.e. if all bets are riskier, then people will reflect that in the price they’re will to bid.

    Now FI have shown that they can (and will) remove any type of dividend at 30 days notice. This creates further risk with what is meant to be a 3-year bet and therefore sensible people will adjust the price they are willing to pay accordingly.

    If FI and the Twitterati that nag them want prices to increase, first and foremost, they need to reduce (not increase) the risk that every trader is now exposed to.



  • Thanks @ocs123

    I get the risk profile side of things and I do get that things are far from good at present. A lot could be better, the way comms are handled is shocking to say the least.

    I'm just struggling to understand what peoples expectations are. As you say (I havent been around for 5+ years on FI so I take your word), this is the first dividend decrease FI have introduced. Surely expectations can't be that dividends just continually increase? Surely dividend payments need to reflect what is realistic for the company in order for the company to succeed and in turn to continue, thus not putting the company and everyones money at risk? No company (I know of) would continue to pay out higher and higher amounts, year on year. And although it appears to be (and most likely is) we dont yet know that this is in fact a decrease (but im in full agreement with everyone who thinks the fact we dont know the replacement is ridiculous and the way the comms was handled the other day was ridiculous).

    Similar with the T's & C's. I'm struggling to understand what peoples expectations are? Companies change their T's & C's all the time, I work for a Bank and they definitely change more regularly than annually. If you dont like the change you stop your relationship with the company. As, I think it was o_O posted on a different thread, FI have a process for what happens if you dont want to accept the Ts & Cs. How does FI differ to any other company? Per my example above, I dont what to stop using whatsapp, so you accept the T's & C's regardless.



  • @ocs123 said in T&C's and Dividend payouts:

    FI make it up as they go along, which is eroding some people’s confidence in them.

    I do struggle with the notion that FI just makes things up as they go along. I definitely dont think they have / do handle everything in a good way but I dont know many companies that go from concept to a multi million pound company in 5 years by making things up as they go along.

    I myself have never worked for a company that works in this way. I do know a lot of companies have been forced in to last minute / hasty changes of plan and focus this year as a result of the pandemic, and this , for a lot of companies does not result in the best outcomes.



  • @Sherbet then explain why they've cut in play dividends without announcing their replacement?

    Why a shrewdly run company couldnt anticipate the consequences of corona on the fixture list.

    Why there has been pretty much constant negativity on social media, trustpilot, forum etc for several months.

    Why the CEO changed.

    A company becoming big does not indicate that the people in charge are geniuses. I am sure there is no need for examples to the contrary. Over the past few months the market has crashed and crashed. On top of that, FI have introduced buy commission, overpriced IPOs, and now cut the biggest source of dividends on the index. We still do not know what will replace them, despite the new CEO promising clarity and delivery. The player base are being shafted by ineptitude.



  • @Sherbet said in T&C's and Dividend payouts:

    I'm just struggling to understand what peoples expectations are.

    Nothing too onerous, eg. don't imply IPD are here for the whole 20/21 season and then remove them mid season.


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