Mike B ... BOOM! 💥
@Mr-Matt The problem for me was I don't get the 10% deposit bonus because I already invested £1,200 yesterday in anticipation of something else, which means I have no more money to deposit today for it, so it means nothing to me.
As for legitimacy, yes you are correct and I think floods of people will join and pile in more cash, and yes my portfolio has gone up by about 3%.
I think I'll withdraw the £1,200 back out now and then stick it back in a day before the dividends increase.
@Noirx4 I think they're very funny if they think dividends are very generous and there are much better returns from renting out property lol. Dividends only give around a 20% return for some players per year and that's it. That means they have to stay at the top for 5 years just to give you a full return back. Not to mention if they crash like Ibrahimovic and Rooney before you get out in which case people make a loss or small profit and FI profit from the rest. Anyhow it seems you are right and there will be no dividends increase. It is us though who are being generous and not them by giving them the money to grow the platform.
@HappyLarry59855 not saying i agree with their view just sharing their repeated position for perspective
@Noirx4 I understood that mate.
@Specksynder I've just sold them both again to take my £1,200 back out. I have made no profit or lost anything.
@HappyLarry59855 ah I saw but on the plus you caught the base of all the massive rises today on your Neymars and whatever else you bought so smart trading at that respect. Always good to have a bit of cash on the side as these situations will come up several times a year, either a boom phase or a crash to load up on all the panic dips
If anyones mulling up where to move their money email Noirx4@hotmail.com to get a free sample of my £1 a month data product. All the info and data you need to make informed decisions
@HappyLarry59855 I genuinely don't know how in one post you can state that you've made 3% in one day and then in the next state that dividends ONLY pay 20%. I really honestly don't know what you expect from FI, do you want them to buy you a house and send a monthly Direct Debit to your acconut, I really can't see how you can put a negative twist on todays activity. Good luck making anything remotely near FI returns in property. Just sit back and appreciate being part of a wonderful product.
@Martino Maybe you don't get it because you are not thinking about what I said properly. 3% capital appreciation has nothing to do with dividends return.
As for putting a negative twist on it, he made it sound like it was the best thing ever to be seen, yet it wasn't, because the PB being introduced and then doubled is the best thing we've seen.
As for it making more money than property, no it does not! You buy Neymar for £14 and he returns you that back over 5 years and then he gets crocked and goes down to £7 and never returns back up. You sell him. You have made £21 over 5 years from £14. You make no more money after that from him.
Whereas you buy a flat for £60k in the Midlands that you keep until you die (which should be around 60 years). You put £15k down for a buy to let mortgage. The tenant pays your mortgage off after 10 years. You now have an asset of £60k from £15k. You keep the flat for another 50 years and continue receiving £5k a year from it. That is £250k + £60k value of the flat, which is a £310k return from £15k, a bit more than £21 per share from £14.
I don't want this debate to continue because I know what I mean and know that I am right.
@HappyLarry59855 No worries man, I like that you chose a worst case scenario with Neymar to prove your point though. I was thinking more, buy Asensio for £1ish, sell 1 year later for £3ish. 200% capital growth increase, good luck finding that in the West Midlands property market. But as you say, you know you are right so let's agree to disagree.
P.S I do like the estimated death time though
I'm afraid I have to agree with Martino here. You chose a worst case scenario FI v a great case scenario in the housing market. A fair equivilant would be to say you get some Tennants who don't pay rent and it takes you 18 months to get a high court order to remove them in which you never see the rent again nor the costs involved to get them removed. When you get in the house they have wrecked the gaff. Needs a boiler a roof the lot. But you think it's worth the reinvestment , to pony up only for Brexit to cause the housing market to crash and the price of houses fall and the cost plus tax of owning a 2nd home sky rocket.....if you compare it's best to compare and apple with an apple. Not a banana with a 19 year old rotted apple. If you bought neymar a year ago the % ROI in investment would be higher than that of your house in the Midlands and Neymar was injured for 5 months of that time.
Housing is a great investment and that's not my point. My point is solely that the example you used was terribly bias.
@HappyLarry59855 Sorry mate, that's not how public forums work. You can't call an end to a debate and declare yourself the winner, especially when there are multiple flaws with your logic. You're entitled to your opinion but that last sentence really grinds my gears.
Firstly, if you expect FI to ever turn into a product where you can simply buy a player, hold forever and make the kind of returns you have stated in your property scenario then that is never going to happen. Ever. Not even close. FI need to earn commission on sales to be able to afford the payouts, they need to stimulate volatility in the market. They have repeatedly stated that the dividends at present are very generous and most people seem to agree, myself included. It's a delicate balancing act and if dividends were increased to the amounts that would satisfy you then selling would decrease and the product could easily become unsustainable. No-one would have any reason to sell the Neymars of this world and the commission vs dividend payouts wouldn't add up. I'm not saying they'll never increase but in my 7 months on the index the footie has doubled. We don't have a growth issue here...
In your 2 scenarios, the FI one is very pessimistic (you can only hold players for 3 years by the way). I would bet most traders would back themselves to get out of that trade before £7... Also, you could make much better returns on FI by I dunno... trading? This is a trading platform yes?
Your property example is also incredibly simplistic. What about maintenance costs? The cost of your time being a landlord or paying someone else to do that for you? The effect of changes in the economy/housing market? Loads more I'm sure. There's also no aspect of this that is really comparable to the dividends vs commission factor present with FI so all in all it's not a fair comparison in the slightest. We're talking about an entire industry vs one company. Not the same.
It's like you think it's reasonable to demand that FI makes you rich with minimal effort on your part, but the real question is if you think the returns available through FI are so poor (you're literally the only person I've ever seen imply this) then what the hell are you doing here!? Go buy a flat if that's so easy!
@Jazzman I am on this because I am making money from off of other people's simplicity. People hold Sane, Sterling and Ronaldo and will lose if they buy into those players or make little. I bought players like Tielemans, MBappe, Lookman and then when they go up a lot then I sell.
I am also on this because the product is still growing and people are joining it, but when they stop and it hits it's peak then I am pretty sure I will be gone.
As for the dividends, well good for you, but trust me they are taking more money from you than what they are giving to you.
And finally as for the 3 year rule, you can sell them and buy them back again minus a 3 or 4% commission and sell loss. Thank you very much and I think I've proven myself correct yet again.
@NewUser104268 I would buy after the crash, not before. Also you should check the tenants employment history, credit history, check with previous landlords to ensure they pay rent etc. That way you can be more sure about the person.
johnboywalker last edited by
Larry son, it's getting late ... time for yer bed.
@johnboywalker Nope. I work nights. Even on my days off I sleep during the day and stay awake at night. Thanks for the patronising quip though. You seem to know my life so well.
Matt FI last edited by
Property and mortgage specialist here.
Can confirm @HappyLarry59855 figures are grossly incorrect - mostly regarding the mortgage payback time and completely ignoring maintenance costs, insurances, stamp duty (probably), legal fees & tax (probably)
On a secondary note - comparing one investment over 5 years to another investment over 60 years is the most ridiculous misrepresentation i have ever seen. (although misrepresentation is probably over-generous as I think there is such a clear lack of understanding that he/she does not have the ability to misrepresent)
@NewUser100779 For a flat in Midlands it can vary between £50 - £600 for maintenance and management fees per year. Don't need stamp duty unless it's an expensive property. Legal fees to buy it would be around £600 - £1,000. Because it's a flat the landowner pays the insurance. Yes, I have thought about all these things. I wouldn't write something without doing so Mr Mortgage Specialist who knows so much.
As for my comparitive of one investment to another my point was with Neymar you've got 5 years with him at the top. With property it can last you a life time and keep returning money.
Please don't insult me or get patronising by saying things like ridiculous etc. You may not agree but it comes across smarmy and stuck up like others can do.
Oh yes, please look at my example when it comes to property here:
We're not talking about London prices you know and you probably don't work in my area so have no clue. I said £60k for a flat and you can find cheaper ones that still rent out at £500 a month so I was speaking about more of an average than the lower end prices.
Matt FI last edited by
Yep i agree, re-read my post and it was patronising, apologies.
However it remains that you simply cannot compare 5 years vs 60 years. If we cannot agree on that then the rest is a bit pointless, although i understand that Neymar is temporary and property can be forever.
Remember after 5 years you could then take your Neymar cash and then buy another FI superstar...or if the FI market shows no good returns at that point you can cash out and then buy a property for 55 years.
You would still always compare 5 years vs 5 years (unless the housing opportunity was a 'take it right now for 60 years or loose it completely' kind-of deal...which it isn't)
Therefore, what returns more in the next 5 years...£15k in Neymar or a £15k (as a deposit) in a rental property? My FI experience is not great enough to try and predict the Neymar side of things...
On the property side, as others pointed out, you simply missed a few things out to exaggerate your point. You have now just added in maintenance and management which have a significant affect over 60 years. If, as you have now defined, it is a flat then you will also have service charge and ground.
Stamp duty and tax are circumstantial but most people will (certainly over a 60 year period) in the 20% to 40% tax bracket from their normal employed / self-employed income so your gross rent minus a few of the above fees will be subject to that - again huge implications of 60 years (especially if you aim not to have a mortgage on it for 50 of them). FI = tax free (for now)
If anybody already owns their own home or another buy-to-let then they would pay 3% stamp duty on the purchase price (another £1,950) or if this is their first purchase then they would get hit with an extra 3% stamp duty on the full purchase price when they do come around to buying their own home (could be several thousand £s)
@HappyLarry59855 you clearly know quite a lot about this and are probably aware of the above but for other people it better for them to be aware of all the costs - not just the big upside.
Having said all of that...i still think these types of flats make incredible investments and everybody should aim to own at least 1. But that still doesn't mean in the next 5 years it is a better place for your money than Neymar...that will remain open ended cause we simply don't know what will happen in that time... (career ending injury vs consistent dividends and appreciation)
@NewUser100779 Okay, I see where you are coming from with 5 years of Neymar vs 5 years of flat. Also you are right about re-investing the money after Neymar and carrying on. I think though, that generally business' get big and then a competitor comes along when it's big and it then goes down sometimes. Property is safe for 60 years generally, or has been. FI may not even exist in another 10 years.
Stamp duty is only on property over £125,00 so shouldn't affect my area I would think, though I may be wrong. I mentioned maintenance and service charges also, but yes it is a lot of money.
They are good investments though and in the Midlands area as you have seen are cheapish. Currently my portfolio is £17k, but that minus £7k loan I have = £10k. I have made about £6k of profit since using the FI seriously in 6 months. This is why I am on the index still to see it grow and grow. Maybe I am greedy and have a bit of gluttony but we can all dream... even if dreams turn into nightmares.
Whilst this platform grows there is lots of money to be made but when it hits its heights then things will stabilise. Players' prices won't go up the same and dividends will no longer increase, meaning a ceiling.
Around that period I reckon I'll be out of this thing and onto something different like property as mentioned, or a rival start-up to FI that is similar but with equal potential, which is sure to come. Where there's an ASDA there is usually a Waitrose, Tesco or Morrisons.