Neymar



  • @Mwerdna

    Would suggest that if you buy any of the big boys, they have to be looked at as long term holds as can been seen from your situation that instant sell is not really an option due to the large spread and 2% commission of what will be a significant amount. You should not be investing in the top players if it does not allow you enough surplus funds to take advantage of other opportunities. All of Messi/Neymar/Ronaldo/Pogba will over a rolling 3 year period have spells of MB/PB dominance and provide you will excellent returns which can be used to purchase more speculative players.



  • @Fletch Ronaldo is the only high priced player that i hold, all of my players are either cheap or young, or both.. next highest valued after Ronaldo is Frenkie de Jong actually :)) I'm here for the marathon with the odd sprint here and there, I only decided to join FI on the 15th August and have an all time profit of +6.5% which i see as pretty impressive considering i get zilch profit leaving the money in my Swedish bank account, thanks for the reply Fletch :))



  • @Mwerdna

    Next time don't Instant Sell players like Mbappe. It's complete madness.

    Put the futures you want to get rid of in the sell queue. For any of the Top 10 or 15 players they will sell within 48 hours (max) and you will get a far better sale price.

    I'd only recommend Instant Selling one of the Top players if they've been hit by a bus, suffer a career ending injury, move to China or are about to retire, and their price is going to drop massively.



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  • I often hear people saying "never instant sell" but i've always done it for a number of reasons...

    firstly... I have a buy price and a sell price... I understand what price i want to buy a player for and I have a profit i need to make at instant sale before I even consider selling... so as long as i'm well above my own profit targets whether it's 20p/25p/30p or £3 above profit it makes no odds to me...I set the targets... I don't go off FI's 'buy price' because spread varies, commission on top, length of sale if queuing... it all adds up!!!

    secondly... The only times I sell on FI is to re-invest because I think I can make a quicker/bigger profit elsewhere... So by instantly selling (once I hit my target profit) I can immediately get in on another player so in waiting 24-48 hours i'm not risking price rises and instead buying at the price I want to pay... 24 hours can be a long time in FI especially when buying for PB/MB

    thirdly... I liken it to taking a bus or using a taxi... we all pay a little bit more for using cabs for simplicity reasons.. nobody calls it 'complete madness' when a bus does exactly the same job... I prefer to take taxis and although yes, I pay a bit more for them it makes my life much simpler... and thats why I like the option of instant sell!

    Not for everyone i know... Some people like taking the bus... But if i have to be somewhere in ten minutes im not going to wait fifteen minutes before a half hour journey and five minute walk if i can do it in one go!!! Even if it costs me that little bit more!!



  • If IS was ever removed I would leave the Index.

    Good to know you can get your money out to use elsewhere right away.



  • @ocs123 I understand the difference in price if I instant sell, but I was not willing to put in £900 in at the moment, and I wanted to buy at that moment, as i said earlier i ended up a lot more plus than the losses i made on Mbappe



  • @dannypea Fantastic post, I've just said almost the opposite on another / similar forum page regarding the top players and their spread but your analogy is spot on.

    Mwerdna, I mentioned your instant selling in that post, if you made 58p a share since yesterday on the £872 then well done - 100% you made the right decision!! I understand you probably didn't want to invest further (I've also reach my current investment level) but could you have afforded to put the extra £900 in until your Mbappe futures sold to the market? I've sometimes used this approach, bought the hot prospect, sold the old prospect to the market over a couple days and then withdrawn the money, my investment level is back to my limit but my portfolio has enjoyed the new prospect increase without the IS hit - just a thought :-)



  • @dannypea Nothing wrong with instant sell in certain situations, but if it's a player who's likely to sell to market quickly it's more like paying extra for a cab when there's a bus going your way right behind it!



  • @Comrade

    Instant sell will disappear when order books come in - although FI have said they will ensure there will be market makers to ensure enough liquidity in the early stages.

    I guess it will look very much like the Betfair Exchange where you can input the price you will sell a future for and others can input the price they are willing to pay.

    I was one of the very 1st users of Betfair and the value you could get was amazing in the early days with people willing to lay prices that were completely at odds with the bookmakers, however now the difference in prices is very marginal.

    It is understandable that FI want to get rid of instant sell as in effect they are underwriting your BET as if the player becomes worthless (major injury/transfer to China/Retirement) you still get some cash back. Imagine if tomorrow Ronaldo tore his ACL how much would FI pay out to traders who instant sell!

    Once Order books come in and have settled down they will create massive opportunities for traders to really back there judgment whilst also making the selection of players far more subjective as you will no longer have a guaranteed price to sell out for it will actually be what someone is prepared to pay!

    In the long run this will be far superior to the current system but the rule do not play with more than you can afford to lose will be far more pertinent as well as not using FI as a short term bank account.



  • @dannypea

    IS is understandable for low to medium price players, because only a very patient person (which isn't me) will be willing to wait a week or more for their futures to sell.

    But instant selling a Top 10 or 15 player is utter madness (other than in the aforementioned special circumstances). I've sold many futures in those players over the last year and they very frequently sell within an hour or two (absolute worst case within a day or two).

    If you're that desperate to buy another player, deposit more money from your bank account and buy the player immediately. Then list your high value player in the sell queue and withdraw the equivalent amount of money when they sell hours later.

    The withdrawal money will hit your account the same day that the deposit comes out. Even if you withdraw the following day, it usually still hits your account the same day the deposit leaves.

    To use your analogy, this will enable you to take a taxi and pay bus prices. You're currently taking a taxi and paying taxi prices.



  • @AT10 yes i could afford to put in £900 mate, but unfortunately I'm living in Sweden and we have the currency rate to think about too :(( it's the only thing that sucks with F1 for me..
    I put that money into Frenkie De Jong and Dalot so fairly comfortably covered the loss ;)) so thanks for the well done comment.



  • @AT10 sorry forgot to mention i sold Mbappe together with Luke Shaw so i was selling a profit and a loss at the same time, so didn't actually notice, I bought Luke Shaw b4 he flew up and sold as soon as I realised ppl were cashing in, was also instant sell but one with a great profit and a player nobody was buying, a while after i had sold he went down 10p more ;))



  • @ocs123 as i just explained to another person, i live in Sweden and we have the currency rate to think about too, you know how it is when you buy and sell currency, the difference would be a silly loss



  • @Fletch

    Excellent post but I'm off when IS goes

    If you need money out in the event of an unexpected event in your life IS gives you that chance.

    Thanks for your response tho



  • You will still be able to sell your players quickly when order books come in it will just be that the price may be higher or lower than what instant sell is now.

    A simple example is:

    You can buy Neymar for £13.53 but to instant sell him would be £12.85 + 2% to FI.

    Once order books come in it is you who select what price you sell him at and I am sure if you were to offer your futures in him for sale at say £13.30 he would be sold in seconds.

    Conversely:

    David Luiz is £1.79 to buy and £1.74 to instant sell

    If you wanted to sell him in a hurry once order books are in you would maybe have to offer him at £1.50 to get a quick sale.

    So as you can see in some cases it will be better and some worse but as it will be better with regards to the more expensive players all in all we will be better off. However as can be seen from the examples it will create all sorts of opportunities and the better traders will have to have liquidity to take advantage of when others need to sell quickly.



  • @Fletch
    Aye that's a good point mate.
    You could offer them at well below market value and they would sell no problem



  • @Comrade

    eventually as the number of traders increases I believe the margins between buy and sell price will reduce dramatically and you will be able to sell players quickly with a very small difference between buy and sell, maybe just a couple of pence. This will need many more traders hence why we need the new countries and the current advertising to work.



  • @ocs123 so why do you sell to market? to get the best possible price for that player at that time i presume? Is it not better to understand that markets rise and fall at all times so having a price point which you are willing to sell at no matter what the market says is a more thorough strategy?

    If i were desperate to 'sell a player' it would be because i feel it is the right time to sell (regardless of price)... I wouldn't put it on the market for a few days and think "hey ho if it sells i'm happy but if doesn't so what"... Stocks and Shares do not work like that so why should FI? I want a price for my product, I'm happy to sell it at that price and if i get slightly more for it even better... Let's not get greedy over a few quid here!

    And 'IF' i'm desperate to buy a player why tie up funds and skint yourself by using your own money from your bank??? First rule of investing... Use other peoples money!!! I buy player A and make profit to sell them to buy player B... I don't keep using my own funds because the whole point is to make money out of the funds i've already invested!!!

    I'm not saying there's right and wrongs but what I'm saying is... It is ok to take taxi's and it is ok to pay full price for that taxi should it get you from A to B quicker than perhaps a bus might... You never know, you might even get the odd Limo turning up at your door because of that taxi you took!!!!!



  • @dannypea

    You're argument doesn't make sense.

    Yes, fine, have a price point at which you are willing to sell no matter what. But if you sell to the market, rather than IS, you will reach that price point sooner (days, weeks or months sooner). Enabling you to move on and reinvest in your next profitable trade.

    By instant selling a player that will sell to the market in hours (or at worst days), you're needlessly costing yourself circa 5% AND tying up your capital (in order to reach your price point) for longer than is necessary.

    The compound interest of those two things over the course of a year, through trade after trade after trade, could result in a very significant loss of profit.


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