Now that the smoke has cleared...



  • ...and prices seem to be a lot more steady than they were on
    the manic 19th/20th/21st October... Is anyone hoping the Goal/Assist dividend STAYS (in some form or other)? Is so, or if not..why? 🤔



  • I haven’t went out of my way to participate in the g&a I try to think of it as bonus if receive anything from it however I do think they need events like this to keep prices shifting to allow opportunities for long term investors (eg picking up cheaper than usual defenders) and also prevent the market from stagnating.



  • I wasn't in favour as it happened I thought it was gonna crash the market as people was selling up to rebuy, but I'm in favour of the new divs, I don't chase it but with any spare money I look ahead and pick out a striker and in general if you've bought a couple of days before you can still instant sell if need be if they don't score or whatever and still make some money in a worse case. But my main strategy is long term, the new divs just gives me a chance to trade a couple of days here and there as something different,



  • If they made it say a four time a season thing, dates given at the seasons start, I would be for it. I have done OK, bought some extra players I thought might bring results and fortunately they did.
    But did get fed up seeing the sales come midnight, not my strategy.



  • I think now the market has settled it can have a place, but I would not chase 2p divs, more money to be made on normal betting for goal scorers and lost of course, but I am not a big gambler.

    I like the idea of a sweepstake though.



  • If there was either addition for defenders, either 1p for a clean sheet or 4p for a goal, I think it could be okay.

    But I just don't like it. The way it was introduced to maximise the frenzy was pretty filthy and the size that some spreads have got to are ridiculous. I hold Dodi Lukebakio, he'll keep rising and rising so I'm not actually looking to sell, but he's available for 92p and his instant sell is 86p. That's not normal or encouraging.



  • Yes, also think it should be extended to GK and Def but for a longer period. That would really help the market grow and stabilise at the same time.



  • @Metropolis_山の中の市 Doesn't have to be clean sheets. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there could be GWS as in Game Winning Saves from GK's worth 40pts for example, to put them on the same parity with goal scorers. Then there would and should be an interest in GK's.

    And for defenders, last man tackles for example where a goal might have been scored. This brings all player positions into play. It's ridiculous the way it is now, heavily loaded towards scorers. GK's and defenders should be able to claim top PB's too.



  • @Ollie I agree that defenders and gk should get thee share but I feel they shouldn’t make this g&a a constant ongoing thing. I feel that they should treat it more like periodic events throughout the year. Maybe this quarter it’s g&a and another is clean sheets or whatever else can be thought up that prices can keep shifting and won’t always favour one type of player. It may help overall growth amongst all players



  • Strikers 1 p for a goal, mids 2p for a goal, defenders, 3p for a goal. Goalkeepers 1p for a cleansheet.
    That would balance things up a bit.



  • @Tom77 said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    Strikers 1 p for a goal, mids 2p for a goal, defenders, 3p for a goal. Goalkeepers 1p for a cleansheet.
    That would balance things up a bit.

    This is a good compromise Tom, but nothing for an assist no? OK, let's assume that F.I. adopted this model and apply it to the sole qualifying game last night...

    Suso (fwd for Milan) earns 1p for his goal, Romagnoli (def for Milan) earns 3p for his goal and nothing is earned for Genoa's goal (Romagnoli OG).
    F.I. pay out 4p in Goal divs

    The actual payout under the current model is 5p (2p per qualifying goal and 0.5p per assist - I'm assuming both goals featured an assist?).
    So, F.I. could potentially save money (if every game was like this of course! 😀) and we as investors might see more value in GKs and DEFs.

    And because the divs are so low, it almost eradicates the quick flip behaviour, which has actually fizzled out already anyway pretty much.

    I like it Tom 👍



  • @Ollie said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    @Metropolis_山の中の市 Doesn't have to be clean sheets. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there could be GWS as in Game Winning Saves from GK's worth 40pts for example, to put them on the same parity with goal scorers. Then there would and should be an interest in GK's.

    And for defenders, last man tackles for example where a goal might have been scored. This brings all player positions into play. It's ridiculous the way it is now, heavily loaded towards scorers. GK's and defenders should be able to claim top PB's too.

    How do you define a game winning save? If a goalkeeper makes 10 really good saves in a 1-0 win for their team, how would the game winning save be treated differently from when their side win 1-0 but the keeper has only made 1 really easy save?



  • @Yellow said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    @Ollie said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    @Metropolis_山の中の市 Doesn't have to be clean sheets. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there could be GWS as in Game Winning Saves from GK's worth 40pts for example, to put them on the same parity with goal scorers. Then there would and should be an interest in GK's.

    And for defenders, last man tackles for example where a goal might have been scored. This brings all player positions into play. It's ridiculous the way it is now, heavily loaded towards scorers. GK's and defenders should be able to claim top PB's too.

    How do you define a game winning save? If a goalkeeper makes 10 really good saves in a 1-0 win for their team, how would the game winning save be treated differently from when their side win 1-0 but the keeper has only made 1 really easy save?

    Game winning save would be too difficult to assess/monitor. Goals and assists are pretty much catalogued on all the important sites (flashscore.com etc).
    It's hard to define a game winning save, it's too subjective (power of the shot, did the keeper have to move or was it struck directly at him etc).



  • I really dislike the thought of defenders getting more than a striker or midfielder for a goal. Yes it's more unlikely to happen but surely a clean sheet bonus like a goalkeeper makes more sense.



  • @NewUser731 said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    I really dislike the thought of defenders getting more than a striker or midfielder for a goal. Yes it's more unlikely to happen but surely a clean sheet bonus like a goalkeeper makes more sense.

    Then every defender gets a clean sheet bonus, imagine a 0-0 and its bloody boring.

    A defender that can get a goal is much better becuase there is more incentive and its more exciting.
    Would put more money in the index also imo.



  • @NewUser731 said in Now that the smoke has cleared...:

    I really dislike the thought of defenders getting more than a striker or midfielder for a goal. Yes it's more unlikely to happen but surely a clean sheet bonus like a goalkeeper makes more sense.

    I'd maybe suggest 0.5p for a clean sheet for defenders, and 2.5p per goal for defenders.

    Factor that in to @Tom77 's suggestion and I think it's a winner



  • I like the idea of spreading the love across other positions & am open to any combination of those suggested above; the key for me is communication, as the trial APPEARED to be cynically devised to generate commission for FI (existing holders forced to sell in order to be eligible).

    Now if it is sold as a "new purchase bonus" to run for X months after a new purchase then I'd be fine with that - both FI & buyers benefit. If FI crunch the numbers & find it's possible to make it a non-time limited bonus then great but I think it would prove too costly. Basically it comes down to better planning & good communication, not looking like you are just designing a scheme to fleece your existing customers.



  • @ScouseSte

    @Yellow

    All games are watched and moves recorded. For example, take KDB

    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/73084/Show/Kevin-De-Bruyne. Key passes and through balls are categorised, and by strength too, very strong, strong. An analyser makes a judgement call on it, and it's then stored as data .

    When you watch a game, you and the commentator absolutely know when a GK makes an incredible save, it's normally acrobatic. Not a bread and butter save, but a save that would have given the opposition a goal, had it been a lesser keeper. Game analysers can make that judgement too, if they were instructed.

    FI could ask for those stats to be recorded by one of the stat companies. Let's call the heading RWS, Result Winning Saves. An RWS is the difference between a loss, a draw or a win. Just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean it can't. It's not a blanket award to all defenders, just the GK.

    We all know GK's are ignored by traders, there's no incentive to buy them. Why should it stay like this? The playing field for all players has to be level, so that all players can win win the top PB on the day. Why do top teams sign top GK's? They prevent more goals being conceded.

    If they had their own category where awarded points were balanced and important, you would buy them. They make up part of the player index.

    As you are aware, G&A is making defenders almost redundant too. If FI keep it, Is there much point in buying them, not a lot, as defenders hardly score. You could have an extra stat category where defenders are awarded 20-30 points for example where they make that last man tackle (LMT) that prevents the one on one with the keeper. Or goal line clearances (GLC). The ones the commentators talk about, the one lhat prevents almost certain goals.

    The platform needs to improve, this is one way to do it. I am not suggesting clean sheet bonuses for all defenders, but individual extras. GK's never win top PB. Defenders hardly ever win top PB. Time for a change?



  • @Tom77 I agree with this, I would be pretty happy to see a defender I have put the ball in the net rather than hoping a team keeps its clean sheet for a penny a share.



  • I like the goal dividends... I always did.. just wasn't sure on the way it was launched??? Assists mean nothing to me... I don't watch enough of all 40-50 games in a weekend or care enough to monitor assists on top of goals and i've played the game long enough to understand that the last person to touch the ball before the goalscorer isn't always the most important in the build up of play so assists in my opinion are vastly overrated. David Silva for example would probably get 10 more goals a season if he chose to shoot and not pass when five yards out!!! Give me 10 at 2p rather than 10 at 0.5p any day of the week!!!

    I would like it to work something like 1p strikers, 2p midfielders and 3p defenders for goals.. its just a simple way of monitoring that everybody can understand... As for goalkeepers.. why not penalty saves? again something similar and simple to spot... we then look for specialist keepers as we do goalscoring defenders (which we do for PB purposes anyway) so the Jordan Pickford's & Tom Heaton's and not just David de Gea's & Ederson's get picked up!!! Maybe for PB purposes pen saves should be worth the same as a goal which could see GK's points racked up on days where they also keep clean sheets? Game winning pen save? Could be a goer for DF dividends if they can't be bothered to give Goalkeepers a separate category??


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