Bots - The Crusade!



  • It is my belief that bots are the biggest threat to FI as it stands.

    I have seen people say 'FI don't care so why should we?'
    Quite simply, FI care about profit. They won't care how much profit we make, as long as they continue to make their profit margins. All the time bots are driving commision, they have no incentive to act.

    Let me be clear, I very much enjoy FI, it is fun and more skillful than traditional betting. That is why I have invested here (I make approx £100 a month profit from traditional betting) as the fun element is more here.

    The difference in skill level here is what keeps me playing. I am playing here because I am playing against real people. I make a profit if the people I am playing against make worse decisions that I do.

    Disclaimer here: I am a poker player. A good poker player who has seen the damage that bots can do. And bots have brought down sites in the past, and will do in the future.

    Aside from the 'I want to be playing against real people and not a computer' argument, is the obvious financial argument.

    I see bots making huge profits from 3 places here.
    Firstly, the obvious IPO. Secondly, the pumpers and dumpers and finally, the saturday rush. I am sure they are elsewhere too, but these are the three that I intend to focus on.

    Why should we care? The maths, for starters.

    1. IPO's.
      As someone who isn't usually around for IPO's but who had read all about the bots, I actually got to witness this yesterday when off work sick. And oh my gosh, what an eye opener.
      One player went on sale at £1. I haven't seen any humans get him for less than £2.50 but let's be generous and say the limit for bots was £2.00.
      That is 100 shares per 1p = 10,000 shares bought by bots.
      If we have 10,000 shares bought at £2.00 and sold at £2.70, that is 10,000 x 0.70 = £7000. That doesn't include the fact that 9900 shares are bought below £2.00. Thousands leaving humans and going to bots.

    2. Pumpers and dumpers.
      Potentially more damaging as it hits new players.
      Stipe Perica as an example (as he is live atm).
      Available for 33p. Bot pumps to 53p. That is 2000 futures. Now available for IS at 70p. Even for allowing 2000 futures bought at 53p and sold for 70p that is 17p x 2000 = £340. I have been very conservative in that price too and is probably easily closer to £500. That money is directly lost from new players. It isn't good enough to say they need to learn/it is their own fault. I fully believe the speed in pump is bots, buying and selling at pre-selected prices and targets new/weak players.

    3. Saturday sellers.
      For me, this is the most dangerous because it is harder for us as players to detect.
      By Saturday sellers, I am looking at those buyers who buy as a goal comes in, and see prices rocket. I also believe most people don't see this as bot use, but it most certainly is. Get in on a goal before humans, then instant sell at 20p profit (add whatever profit number the bot owner sets). 100 shares x 0.20 = £20 profit. Not masses, but that is conservative. Now consider how many players rise on goals, on a Saturday alone. We are talking thousands of pounds.

    All this money, whilst peanuts to FI, is money lost to real human players.
    Think you are playing against others? Beat the bots first.

    Fi HAVE to act on this. They can detect bots easily and by not acting they are saying they don't care.

    My aim now is to rid FI of bots. It is easily done, just freeze bot accounts. Put money from bot accounts back into competitions/dividends etc.

    I intend to:
    Keep this thread bumped to top.
    Harass FI to do something.
    Spam thread at each opportunity.

    FI simple have to act.

    Anything else is just not good enough.



  • Well said & stick at it; certainly an unwelcome cancer that would be best removed & prevented but it will require both will & action by FI senior management.



  • And here was me googling how to buy a bot!!
    No,seriously well put!
    Ticket master block 11,000 ticket bots a minute so on such a small scale here it should be manageable for FI to act as it's obviously traceable to which account the futures have gone to!



  • Whilst I'm in no disbelief that Bots are a disease that needs resolving, I'm also aware that people sit and update, update, update, and if 50 people have faster fingers than myself and all buy 100 shares each then the IPO 's price has already risen 50p, I've been lucky enough once with the fast fingers and even getting on early with 1st 100, the next 100 were already 20p more expensive.
    Really not sure if FI can do anything about this Bots bollox either, I'm sure the best way is to just avoid IPO's altogether.



  • Not sure I understand the theory or the Math here. If a player is released at £1 and a bot buys up to £2...it has spent the requisite money to do so... As it instant sells that value will keep dropping... So the bot has lost money in commission. It can only make money if a human also drives the price up, or if they market sell and humans buy those shares from the bot. So someone has to make a choice that they think the value is good and make a buy.

    You said yourself you are hoping to play against other people and beat them because they make bad judgement. Bots are just setup by humans who think they have created a strategy to beat other humans.

    If a player is IPO and goes from £1 to £2 and you buy... You have chosen to buy at that price and the Bot has won. You may also win if other humans pile in and drive the price up further.

    I don't like the bots... But I don't feel like I've lost anything by not being able to buy James Garner. I wanted to pile in... But only to do exactly what the bots have done and gain some capital appreciation against mass poor investors who would be buying for no reason.

    Even £1 is a rip off for James Garner... He won't win any dividends next year, so how is it a good investment unless you are trying to con other users and make big cap ap.



  • @MrWh1te You 100% have my support in this crusade as I hate bots where concert ticket sites are concerned and I loathe them here too.



  • @Andy-M said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    Whilst I'm in no disbelief that Bots are a disease that needs resolving, I'm also aware that people sit and update, update, update, and if 50 people have faster fingers than myself and all buy 100 shares each then the IPO 's price has already risen 50p, I've been lucky enough once with the fast fingers and even getting on early with 1st 100, the next 100 were already 20p more expensive.
    Really not sure if FI can do anything about this Bots bollox either, I'm sure the best way is to just avoid IPO's altogether.

    And that is it. 50 people being faster is fine, you are against humans.
    But that will NEVER happen because 2000 shares are gone before you can refresh.

    And FI can end bot use in minutes. Don't let them say otherwise because it just isn't true.



  • Not too worried about the pumpers and dumpers if they are bots - really survival of the fittest comes in and only the people who buy without thinking should be affected.

    Not too sure about Saturday rush thing ...

    The whole IPO thing obviously needs to be overhauled. Apart from anything else , it's not healthy to have people clicking refresh for 2 hours. Here are two fixes ...

    1. Tendering system
    2. They could have a system where every player is released at 10 quid at 9am. Until 9pm they drop 10p every minute that goes by without them being bought. That way they will drop to their natural price.


  • @Vespasian32 said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    You said yourself you are hoping to play against other people and beat them because they make bad judgement. Bots are just setup by humans who think they have created a strategy to beat other humans.

    This simply isn't true on this site and shows a misunderstanding of the use of bots on here.
    Bots are not set up to beat other humans on strategy, they are set up to beat humans on speed.

    They insta-buy/sell BEFORE humans get a chance to react accordingly.

    They feed off of humans.

    The argument 'just don't buy/sell at those prices' is ineffective because as it stands bots are driving the site. If we stop buying/selling then the site will stagnate, people will withdraw and the site will collapse.



  • @mike778 said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    They could have a system where every player is released at 10 quid at 9am. Until 9pm they drop 10p every minute that goes by without them being bought. That way they will drop to their natural price.

    Sounds good... But give it time and the market will still divise a strategy of letting it get low and then a sudden buy signal and everyone will pile in driving the player well beyond their worth.



  • @MrWh1te said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    The argument 'just don't buy/sell at those prices' is ineffective because as it stands bots are driving the site. If we stop buying/selling then the site will stagnate, people will withdraw and the site will collapse.

    Not at all, I've sold and bought shares this morning in several players. I don't consider who owns the shares or what value they paid for them... I bought because I think the price is right and I will either make money via dividends or capital appreciation. I've now got a port worth £14, 500... Bots don't really enter my mind except its free money on IPO day as I buy while they are and know with 100% certainty I can sell at profit to them while they work. I made money on every release except Garner... Because I got a work call when he was released.



  • @LukeMalla said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    @MrWh1te I've already told you you'll have my support in this crusade as I hate bots where concert ticket sites are concerned and I loathe them here too.

    However, in the interest of making the best argument possible to FI for getting something done about these god-awful traders that are using bots, please check your maths / wording of point 2. Something is wrong either way because if a share is priced at 53p his IS would be lower, not 70p.

    At the time of posting, the shares started at 33p and went to something like 75p. I used 53p as an example of when the bots stop pumping and let humans take over. IS was available at 70p at the time of posting.



  • You've edited the OG post to be correct 👍

    I'll edit my OG post now 👍



  • @MrWh1te

    To say that FI is more skilful than traditional betting is the most pathetic, incorrect single thing I’ve ever read on here!
    Try and make consistent profit out of sports betting with all the obstacles placed in your way once you are self profitable.
    What percentage of users here are in the green? Which is fantastic and long may it continue.



  • @Timothee-Atouba I am in the green. A lot in the green consistently over the past 25 years, pretty much since day 1 of online betting.
    It isn't skill that beats the bookies, it is finding an angle and exploiting it.
    With traditional betting you are NOT playing against humans as was once the case, but by computers, who are setting the odds. In other words, bots.



  • @MrWh1te

    What percentage of active sports bettors are profitable?
    What percentage of FI account holders are profitable?
    Just think about it.



  • @Timothee-Atouba said in Bots - The Crusade!:

    @MrWh1te

    What percentage of active sports bettors are profitable?
    What percentage of FI account holders are profitable?
    Just think about it.

    What percentage of active sports bettors would be profitable if they were playing against humans rather than odds set by bots? (Answer, a lot higher)
    How much higher would the humans profit be if we removed the bot accounts from FI? (Answer, a lot higher)

    Just think about it :p



  • @MrWh1te

    I have to practically dedicate my life to sports betting to make a living at little more than 5% ROI.
    I swan around on here a little bit since October to make over 50% ROI.
    Think about it.



  • 0_1552147626714_tbi.png



  • @Misto

    FI futures... or software upgrades.


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