Your Opinion on IPDs
With the Share Split Announcement, I've been looking at IPDs a bit more closely and how we should interpret a large increase in this area.
My general preference is towards long term trading and therefore I've mostly ignored IPDs previously. I joined before they were introduced though so can't really comment on how attractive they appear to new users and what part they played in my portfolio planning as it was PB which I focused on.
Like many, when they were introduced, I was sceptical. Mostly because it felt like a shift towards shorter term trading and conventional betting. Would traders now focus their attention here instead of a longer term strategy distorting the market on match days and post match?
FI have always wanted more liquidity for obvious reasons. However, I'm wondering if we perhaps judge them harshly sometimes, if in fact IPDs are actually working in the sense that they attract new users and provide a simple payout system based on goals, assists etc. Not to mention, our need for growth to sustain the platform.
Complexity of FI
FI is a complex platform and it takes time to learn the ropes. PB is not an easy dividend to win and the scoring matrix can seem rather complex at first. If the average trader comes here buying the 'best' players, only to wonder why they do not win PB (or MB), despite having huge price tags, it can put people off. For example, if a new trader bought into Mbappe after watching him play, only to see him score two but nowhere near winning PB, and no MB in site. IPDs do fill the void here to a certain extent with a guaranteed payout.
Of course research pays off, and we should encourage this to all users, but who, if they are being honest, bought Brozovic, Parejo, Kimmich, Kroos etc as their first purchases?
I know many traders will say we should 'follow the rules and the system' when we join but the problem with a complex and product is that the target audience becomes very narrow. Not a bad thing per se, if that's what FI want, but I don't believe it is, and neither should it be in my opinion.
A Necessary Add-On?
Watching the FI TV last night, started to make me wonder if FI do genuinely see IPDs as a necessary add-on and not just an opportunity to make extra revenue.
Increase Makes Sense
Further, I do follow and support their logic of sticking to 1p payouts, as opposed to fractions, even though it meant a large increase? My cynical mind initially interpreted this as them grabbing an opportunity to promote IPDs even more and promote shorter term trading to their benefit. They do also refer to the need for liquidity in the video, but I honestly can see their conundrum here. If IPDs are used to simplify dividends, and make match days more exciting, the last thing they should is to create complex payouts. Was their hand forced here? I believe to a certain extent it was.
I'm curious to hear the views of new users. Were you attracted towards IPDs and did you find the PB system too confusing/ complex at first. Also, experienced traders. Am I too trusting of FI? I'm very much on the sceptical side when it comes to IPDs but starting to wonder if I'm being a little too judgemental and cynical towards their intentions.
I was going to write about IPD's a few days ago, especially due to the negativity that surrounds them, but didn't want to get into a big debate. However as you have started a thread I'll join in. :-P
Firstly, yes IPDs received the greatest % increase in the recent announcement, but realistically I don't think FI had a choice unless they got rid of them completely. Dividends are 1p for everything except Defender goals. They couldn't go any lower, as I think fractions of a penny would be too confusing and not particularly enticing.
I think IPD trading brings a purpose to the lower price players. The big names are not really affected. Yes there is a lot of volatility around these players, however if you are patient and buy the players for a long term hold, this shouldn't really worry you, as over time the prices do seem to gradually increase. For those that do like to risk a bet with IPDs there is potential to very profitable. I don't really go chasing IPDs but another benefit of this volatility is that if I have a player I want to sell, I wait for a goal and the surge that follows, and then sell the player on the high.
As you have mentioned, the volatility is great for FI and allows them to make a profit. If FI is successful, then ultimately I believe the traders will also be successful. Extra profit should hopefully mean the ability to increase dividend again and expand / improve the platform making it more attractive to new users.
It also captures some of the betting market that like the thrill of a quick bet. I was just talking to my friend who has made a decent profit with FI. However he said, he justs the big players making him money and is getting a bit boring. So despite being profitable he still wants the excitement of a quick bet. IPD's allow him to do this.
I have waffled on a bit there, so will summarise my main points!
- IPD's cant realistically be any lower so I don't necessarily think this is a big push my FI to make them more important
- The volatility is great for FI, and i believe anything that is good for FI should be good for the long term investor
- IPDs provides an excitement that long term holds don't.
- Can be profitably if you play it correctly, however you have to accept there is an increased risk.
- Yes they increase volatility, but if you are a long term holder this shouldn't worry you too much, as most prices tend to grow, some just go though a bit of a rollercoaster to get there.
Great post. When I joined in January and still now I love the little added bonus going in to my account every Wednesday. I don't trade in particular for IPD's but it's a nice feeling every Wednesday and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
It is what it is, if FI choose to continue, then i have 2 choices, and 1 thing is for sure, I'm not leaving FI because they have a little part of the market that's not for me.
Really good post.
Personally, I'm here for the longer term gains and I'm never going to be chasing IPD's. However, I do think that these dividends increase the trades, particularly on match days which can only be good for FI which ultimately will hopefully be good for us.
PB, MB and IPD's.....I think the combination of all three, along with decent dividend returns will be the making of the platform.
I really don't like them myself; the volatility they cause is frustrating. And given I rarely trade shares, I don't really get any bonus appearing midweek (if it does, its usually pennies).
However, saying that, I can see the benefit to FI overall as a company as obviously it encourages trading, and therefore they can rake in commission payments. If that means sustainability to keep increasing the traditional dividends (PB/MB), then that's fine by me.
As a new trader I assumed analysing fixtures and form and gettin goals was the way to go but i quickly realised I didn't have a large enough grasp of the rules or nuances to beat the pump and dumpers. It was risky unsustainable and unreliable and requires a lot of attention and you have to put a lot of money in to make anything because the capital appreciation is only 15 or so. I think new players quickly go to putting all their money on a couple of players imo who they like and seem underrated/undervalued.
I think its more a section of mid tier traders chasing Ipds. tbh.
Not sustainable !
Too simple a win mechanic, too easy to make approximate predictions, prices will stagnate around their IPD based values (for those who don't win MB/PB).
Keepers are the best example.
Any goalkeeper averaging three clean sheets in a 30 day period...is going to return 3p in IPD's.
Logic tells me that these individuals will stagnate when the commission cost also reaches 3p - £1.50 per future (post split).
I shouldn't complain. I hold all the top keepers and they've been my biggest risers (in general terms since the announcement.
Hm....I'm complaining though.
Any win mechanic that brings stagnation forward more quickly is turd.
Average 2 clean sheets a month - stagnate at £1
Average 3 clean sheets a month - stagnate at £1.50
Average 4 clean sheets a month - stagnate at £2
The same principle is true for goals and assists.
Relatively easy to make approximate predictions = Stagnation point being reached sooner.
I prefer individual PB, it's based more on the individuals current form and performances, more so than the team consistency. So it's more volatile, more difficult to predict and the capital appreciation is sustainable for a longer period - there will always be speculation with PB.
WTF is IPD ???
I speculate Oblak will keep 4 clean sheets next month, one more than his usual 3 based on a good run of fixtures.
That excites me as much as reading daily news articles about the same dudes over and over.
I was hoping for far better when I joined.
I maintain PB is better for all long term, particularly those with a little interest in football matches.
The ipd increase encourages more of us to trade more frequently. This % increase opens it up to being able to flip more valuable players and still make a profit. I don't particularly like playing for ipds although they are a nice little bonus sometimes!!