Why do people seem to have forgotten this is a gambling site? You don't log into a normal bookies, pick 30-odd random selections and expect to make a nice, steady 10% profit.

The fact that the market is ahead of where it was just before lockdown is pretty remarkable, but this isn't just some infinite magic money tree, ultimately you'll only make money by making better picks and trading smarter than other users. The emphasis on picking the right players with actual intrinsic value is only going to become more significant. And on the flip-side, making poor bets will become more costly.

@Ericali Well correct me if I'm wrong here but so far this season TAA has won top defender 5 times, VVD 2 times, and the rest of their defence 0, and he has returned a significant amount more in divs than the other 4 players you mention combined. Add to that his age and the England factor for MB and it's justified why he is more expensive those other 4 players combined.

@Ericali That's fair, but what bothers me is 'reverse pumping' of the player by people simply saying 'he should be £2-£3 less' and not providing reasons why. I don't think this is healthy for the index and particularly new players who may have bought TAA at his current peak who are now worried they're stuck with a bad value bet. There may now be better value players on the index, but this does not make TAA a bad hold for current holders (far from it), nor does it mean holders should sell-up. If he continues to return divs at the rate he has been this season, he remains a cracking hold. If others don't believe he will, then it'll be helpful to give the reasons why they think his div returns will drop off, and establish how many divs he needs to return to be considered a good value long-term hold.

What you've got to remember is that he's just turned 21 and English playing for one of the best teams in Europe who are likely to win the premier league. On top of this he is the main set-piece taker. He has won top defender 4 times already this season as well as 1 first and 1 second place media. This is a 41p yield under the new dividend system already this season and puts him 3rd overall, behind only Messi and Neymar (both of whom are considerably older). A very impressive return for a 21 year old. He also has Champions League knockout games and Euros coming up (Gold Match Days), and it is easy to see him rising again with his next dividend win.

Say he continues to return dividends at his current date for three years (this is conservative as it doesn't factor in dividend increases or new dividends being introduced or that he'll improve as a player), that's a yield of £2.50, plus he'll still only be 24 in 3 years time, so very hard to see him being less than his current price. I don't see the logic in thinking he should be £2-3 cheaper, to me he represents excellent value for a long-term hold.

@Ericali We can keep track over the next year or so like you say, it would be interesting to see how it gets on. I also hold Gomez and Robertson and see a lot of potential for capital appreciation in these players, so wouldn't want to say one way or another who'll win in your bet between TAA and 'the rest'. I simply wanted to present another side to your argument that 'TAA is overpriced', particularly for new holders of TAA.

@Ericali I understand your second point about a potential matrix change as being a valid reason as to why you might not think TAA is a value hold. However I don't think comparing player's price is always that healthy when defining whether a player is value/worth purchasing or not. New users who bought TAA at peak may read comments on here suggesting he should be under £5 and think they've got a bad value bet, sell-up and leave, whereas this might not be the case at all. I think it's sometimes important to look at players in isolation when considering value - say if TAA was the only player you were able to purchase, would you? If so then I don't think it's fair to negatively pump a player by suggesting he should be cheaper than he currently is. If you wouldn't purchase/don't think he's value in isolation, then giving a reason, such as a potential negative matrix change, is valid and more beneficial.

@TeamGB Please explain why you don't think he's worth more than £5? He's won top defender 4 times this season already and has just turned 21. One average game doesn't change his long-term value. I agree he might not win star man that often, but how often does he need to if he's still able to win top defender more regularly than any other defender. Add to that his decent media potential and age.

@Marksandygill To see it as an investment is wrong, it will always be a gambling platform and in the long term, it is only viable if there are more losers than winners. It is not comparable to the stock market. When you buy a player you're making a bet that you'll be able to profit by making dividends and/or selling at a higher price.

Trading should become more possible when full order books are introduced, but I'd be cautious about expecting rockets across the board, it'll only highlight the intrinsic value of the players even further.

Why do people seem to have forgotten this is a gambling site? You don't log into a normal bookies, pick 30-odd random selections and expect to make a nice, steady 10% profit.

The fact that the market is ahead of where it was just before lockdown is pretty remarkable, but this isn't just some infinite magic money tree, ultimately you'll only make money by making better picks and trading smarter than other users. The emphasis on picking the right players with actual intrinsic value is only going to become more significant. And on the flip-side, making poor bets will become more costly.

@Ericali How can you call someone a 'blockhead' simply for wanting to sell?!

The people who have lost out here are those that listed TAA within the last week or two, when his price was around £9.40, and would have expected him to sell at around this price. How bad does it look, for a new user especially, when they log in and see they're shares sold during the only couple of minutes over the past few weeks when their player was 30-40p below normal. This is far more damaging to the platform than pissing off a few 'whales.'

@Ericali I don't understand why you seem to keep pushing for a significant matrix restructure in the summer, seemingly just so it might negatively effect TAA. Surely set-pieces takers deserve to be rewarded? One of the biggest things holding back the index's growth I believe is uncertainty surrounding potential matrix and players positional changes. A bit of certainty surrounding the matrix will encourage growth. You will probably even benefit from it, although, granted you'll have to endure plenty more TAA PB wins!

Tin Jedvaj, CB for Augsburg and starter for Croatia at RB. Decent rating on whoscored (6.83) and some decent PB scores recently. Only 24yo and 41p.

@Ericali We can keep track over the next year or so like you say, it would be interesting to see how it gets on. I also hold Gomez and Robertson and see a lot of potential for capital appreciation in these players, so wouldn't want to say one way or another who'll win in your bet between TAA and 'the rest'. I simply wanted to present another side to your argument that 'TAA is overpriced', particularly for new holders of TAA.

@Ericali Well correct me if I'm wrong here but so far this season TAA has won top defender 5 times, VVD 2 times, and the rest of their defence 0, and he has returned a significant amount more in divs than the other 4 players you mention combined. Add to that his age and the England factor for MB and it's justified why he is more expensive those other 4 players combined.

@Ericali I don't see it as a 3 year bet though, and I'm not sure why so many people do. Yes, the bet expires after 3 years, but in 3 years time you can simply sell and re-buy, so I see it more as a 2% fee to pay every 3 years. Even if you do see it as a 3 year bet, it's important to consider what price the player will be in 3 years (when you come to sell), and for this you need to look 6-7 years into the future. I think players prices should be roughly equivalent to their estimated dividend return of their whole career. Who's to say I won't hold for 6-7 years, this term isn't unusual with other types of investment. Yes a 30% drop from a significant matrix change is a risk, as it is with all players, but I can't see a significant matrix change occuring with the market now as developed as it is. I believe a bigger risk is a drop caused by a significant injury, however this has a bigger impact on older players, due to increased % of time it knocks off their playing career. I understand the attractive option of the other Liverpool defenders, but who's to say they aren't currently all underpriced. Just because you see these players as better value does not make TAA overpriced.

@Ericali The key difference however is age. Messi is now 32, so potentially only has 2-3 seasons at the top to return his current value in dividends (£5.89). TAA has just turned 21, under current dividend payouts he's already returned 48p in divs this season, and if he continues at this rate, (likely to be higher than this is due to dividend increases and player improvement), he should return his current value in dividends alone in 6-7 years. Plus, at this stage, he'll only be 27-28 and likely to still hold a lot of his value. I don't understand why, based on this, you think TAA is overpriced. I understand why you might think there are better options to TAA, but this is a totally different thing to saying TAA is overpriced.

I believe it's a distinct possibility, I think it was mentioned a while back that they were unable to get a licence in a country because they wouldn't allow in-play trading (IPO payouts).