So as the Mrs was painting her nails last night flicking between Emmerdale & Eastenders It suddenly came to me that the London Trader Meet was going to be screened live on facebook… Excited to hear the agenda I raced to my bedside cabinet at 8pm to get my headphones and plugged them into my mobile phone to give it a watch…

After a few unsuccessful checks to see if the live stream had started I eventually got in around 8:15pm where I sat down in my bath robe with a lemon & ginger tea to find a couple of blokes chatting in a pub with the backdrop board to suggest that I’m in the right place.

The camera was offset, the microphones were low, the noise in the Nordic Bar where the meet was hosted was growing and the more they talked the louder it got… The host (apologies for not knowing his name) asked some bloke who worked for Opta about Neymar… “Yeah he’s a good player… Said the statistician who backed his answer without any stats”… ”If he moves to Real Madrid he’ll do even better”.. Well thanks Einstein!!!

Amidst the drowned out drivel of time wasting talking to a man that clearly has no invested interest and no idea about the dynamics of football index I began to laugh at the growing numbers comments on facebook… hitting over 500 viewers most saying “I can’t hear a bloody thing” whilst others said “If I wanted a chat about football I would have gone to the pub” one comment mentioned “I’m off to watch paint dry”… Another stated “Buy Pogba” I’m sitting their giggling to myself at the sideshow but as the Nordic bar noise increased I simply had to cut my losses.. This bloke being interviewed is not telling me anything I don’t know.

I log out and attempt to interact with the Mrs who’s now well in to Eastenders, some young lad has dumped a decent looking young bird to have an affair with Sharon (remember her) who by the way now is about 19 stone and in her fifties… What is he doing??? I log back on to the facebook feed and see Adam Cole (who I’m growing to like) in a dodgy looking shirt being ‘put on the spot’ about a share split.

Cole answers in a way that suggests he’s done some revision and more importantly states that “any decision will be done in a board meeting and not down the pub spontaneously over a pint” which got me thinking… Has he been reading this forum??

As I’m enjoying the feed and what Adam has to say his host decides to get close in thus both microphones becoming too near and a horrible squealing noise is heard everytime he asks a question… “Move your microphones you idiot” comments one facebook user… “Sit further apart” says another.. Really the best part of the night for me was the comments on the live feed, some genius, some simple, but most very funny.

The host wraps up the evening because of ‘sound issues’ after around half an hour before Adam babbles on about Cheltenham and the start of the raffle… I log off having heard enough but get a few plusses out of the event, although I’m glad I didn’t take the 4 hour commute paying £££’s on trains and hotels for that!!!

So what did we learn?

That Football Index is healthy and the market is good. A share split will happen (on March 26th) but the finer details are not decided (these will be decided on March 18th). Adam (who I get the impression would prefer a 10 way but might be outvoted to a 4 way split) wants more of the same and the longevity in the product is essential.. The dividends may take a slight hit initially but you’ll get more shares for your pound and you’ll be able to buy more… Exciting times ahead.

What did I learn?

That football index is new to all this too… Adam praised his staff and stated he’s applied to get FI in the Times top 100 list for growing businesses (which should certainly put a few worried punters minds at ease on the financial side of the company) whilst we need to remember that this is still a young company and they will make mistakes along the way, but they have listened to us before and will continue to do so in order to grow the business and become a predominant player in the fantasy sports/betting culture of this country. I think as long as we keep piping up we’ll be in good hands!!

One thing I would like to see on the next trader meet though…

A proper camera, a proper microphone, a quiet more formal location and please no more OPTA people, Gary Newbon’s or retired footballers that don’t understand the dynamics of the index!!! I would much rather have an experienced trader or two opening the show (maybe even Noir with a slideshow) with a quick presentation on what works for their portfolio… Before Adam or Mike tell us what’s going off in their world and perhaps a Q&A’s at the end before the raffle, vol-au-vents & celebrity selfies…

I'm off to have a nespresso and mid morning pork pie!!!

Have a great day!!!

I'll tell you why this 'trial' hasn't been a good thing...

Hazard down 0.28 in 24 hours... Ronaldo down 0.18... Messi down 0.18... KDB down 0.18... Pogba down 0.17... Mbappe down 0.11... Neymar down 0.11.... Suarez down 0.11

These are some of the best players in the world, the biggest names we have and the leading lights when it comes to FI investments... If these are down then it either suggests the whole market is down (which it is) or other people are putting their investments into other players that aren't quite as good (which they are)...

So thinking logically... If the best players in the market are at a loss... what does that mean for the rest of the market??

Now the form players in Europe, Alcacar is down 0.16 in 24H... Piatek down 0.11 in 24H... Jovic down 0.09 in the last day...

And there's more.. Dybala down, Ramos down, Suso down, Insigne down, Bale down, Aguero down, Kroos down, Lewandowski down, Reus down, Mane down, Sane down.. all over 5p per share!!!

So if we can't invest in the best players because they are falling... and we can't invest in the form players because they are falling... Who do we invest in??? Chancers? Flippers? Average Joes up against weak opposition??? Can a market really survive on that??

I'm not trying to be negative (just recording facts) because IF i was a new investor looking into the game... I would be thinking on who to invest in... and I would be thinking 'WHY?' are all the best players on the game falling whilst the absolute cream of the crap like Sandro Tonelli and Matt O'Reilly are leading the way in the rises??

FI needs to reflect real life football... if it doesn't it simply becomes a farce!!!

I would much prefer it on say Hawksbee and Jacobs tbf, both football writers involved in the early days of fantasy football and the fools panel etc and would probably be more welcoming to it???

But i would suggest that we 'stop' explaining how it all works!!! the coral boys don't explain how betting works... they just lay the odds... lets start now coming on and saying something like........ The football stockmarket is up 39.73 today and the biggest movers overnight include Donny van der Beek who's up 32p to £1.82 per share overnight largely due to new links with Real Madrid.. Also up overnight is Paulo Dybala up 15p to £3.99 a share following links to Manchester United... Harry Maguire is down 5p to 2.28 but he continues to dominate the media dividends and has returned X amount this month so looks like a great time to get in on him ahead of a potential move to Manchester United....

30 seconds a day or a minute slot explaining who's up and who's down and why would appeal to far more people with passive football interest and once they start hearing how and why players go up and down (which is not rocket science) then these 10p movements might start sounding more attractive then the guys on radio are making them out to not be!!!

I'll certainly stick around... I do believe the first few years are about jumping on the crest of the wave and riding it out whilst enjoying some profits on the back of the index's growing popularity alone... Right now everyone wants a bit, they all think its easy money and they want to jump on board the train and have a slice of the cake... (i've ran out of puns for now)...

I do think further afield once prices 'settle' that it will be more difficult to make money and folk will need to trade 'better'... ie based on football performances and getting in at the right time (ie ahead of transfers/news stories) and more importantly selling at the right time ie when prices are highest?

People keep going on about the top ten falling right now.. This is simply down to them being highly inflated initially... then after sub-standard performances (especially the likes of Pogba/Salah/Kane etc and with injuries to Neymar/Messi/Mbappe) those new up coming stars (Sensi, Haaland, Malen etc) are simply closing the gap down to performance!!! This is how the market 'should' be!!!

@Chris-J the problem I have with Greenwood is that i've never seen him play so can't really bring myself to whacking more money on him than say someone like Sadio Mane who is world class, playing week in week out and scoring regularly...

I get the hype and I get that with youngsters growth can be bolstered by apps, goals, recognition, international caps etc so plenty of upward movement proposed 'IF' the lad goes on to become what many hope... But for me.. at this present time he could just be another Will Keane... another Matty Willock... another James Wilson or Joe Rothwell.. another Ryan Tunnicliffe or Larnell Cole... another Nicky Ajose... another Giuliano Maiorana or Deniol Graham.... you get my point???

Be good to actually see him play and see if he has the ability like a Sancho or CHO before I make that judgement call... otherwise it's just 'gambling'.

this is like when you get a bag of sweets and end up making yourself sick because you've had too many....

the top five MB players today reads...

1 Serge Gnabry
2 Ronaldo
3 Harry Kane
4 Paul Pogba
5 Marcus Rashford...

Ok so the top player on that list scored four goals last night and deserves completely to be there for a remarkable 'one off' achievement... the four below are just big names that the press like talking about.... No real change??????????

I don't see anything significant with MB tweaks...the biggest and best players will always be those talked about the most and we will always see more investment in them because they offer more value then those not as big or as good whether it be on the pitch or off it!!!!

@Andy-M probably because you are the only Swedish customer they have and you're a complete nightmare!!!!!!!!! ;-)

this is not (just) a football issue.. this is a society issue... and unfortunately... in countries like Italy, in Eastern Europe and the Med especially... They still haven't got to grips with stamping out racism because they just don't take it as seriously as we do!!!!

This is where society needs to come in and KICK IT OUT!!! Players need educating as much as fans, we all need educating to a standard where we are all made aware that its not ok to talk defamatory towards ANYONE!!!

Bigger fines, Bigger punishments, Bigger awareness through the global governing bodies.. take 3 points off Cagliari and make them play a match behind closed doors, fine them £100,000 and do the same to Bonucci and ban him for three games!!! until those that rule our sports, our societies, our countries and our economies speak up and TAKE ACTION, then this problem will never go away!!!!

So Sarri brings on Giroud at 0-1 down and the Chelsea fans sing 'you don't know what you're doing' followed by 'we want Sarri out'... Chelsea (all be it with a bit of luck and a blind linesman) then go on to score two late goals and win the game... Chelsea are now one point behind Tottenham (who's manager btw is apparently a genius) and one point behind United (who's manager is also a genius)... Arsenal who are level points with Chelsea but with a game in hand could go third tonight with a gaffer whom many gooners are yet to warm too?

Are we too quick to point the blame to the gaffer? OK Sarri left a few 'fans favs' out of his lineup but there could be several reasons for that? I get he doesn't do things the way 'YOU' want him to but could anyone else really do any better playing the style and side YOU demand? Conte perhaps? Maybe Mourinho?

As a football club Chelsea disgust me for the way they do things... Now as knee jerk as the owner himself the fans are becoming the same... What is it that you want???? A Gaffer who plays Callum Hudson Odoi??? A gaffer who wins you trophies??? A gaffer that plays the 'Chelsea' way??? Because I'm confused as to where Chelsea go from here if they do relieve Sarri from his duties? Super Frank Lampard after a 6-1 win against Rotherham might be the answer because the likes of Conte, Mourinho, Hiddink, Ancelotti (with 23 league titles between them) are certainly not good enough... But realistically is ANYONE going to make you any better than one challenging Arsenal, Spurs & United for third because City & Liverpool are streets ahead of the rest simply because they have the best two coaches and best players in the league.

Some good points... Certainly see benefit now in 'ordering'... for example if a player goes up 5/10p in quick time you can set your price for the amount above so it kicks in when they do, in the hope that by capturing the rise early you'll benefit ahead of the spike!

So investing now in Salah at 10p higher his price, and should he score a hat-trick tomorrow that will go up 20/30p plus so you get him on the upward trend, but by setting the price and he has a stinker you don't end up buying, so you can simply reset!

Can be used effectively for those situations i guess! Plus you'll get goalscorer divs on the day as well as any price rise... Players simply won't go up in value if they don't score so won't hit your order price.

Almost like a 'cover bet'... 'IF' the player does well you can auto-purchase at the earliest opportunity, if they do badly your order won't come into play!

@scfc perhaps not then... Maybe you've answered your own question?

Shelvey is not sexy... so do not invest...

Bednarek is a player that you believe in.... that will get a big move... So invest!!!

It can be quite that simple, gut feeling on a good player is usually as good as any! They'll always be 'cheap players' that rise in value... the beauty is when they fall they don't hurt your pocket much either, so low risk whatever!

@scfc so how will you use it?

I've held Mo Salah for example for near enough 3 years.. Now is the time to sell him but by requesting an 'order' for say his buy price... I know I won't get it unless he scores a hat-tirck, by then i may as well keep for another day and cash out after he's won dividends or spiked up even higher?

My point is surely that 'set fee' changes all the time?

At one stage for example... I wouldn't sell Pogba for £20.... Now i wouldn't buy for £3.78... The dynamics change due to situation... By 'ordering' you are adverse to your own portfolio!

SEX is the key... Is the player sexy... Just because you like him do you think your girlfriend would? would anyone else for that matter? If a player isn't sexy a player isn't really that investible..

It's 'OK' having players purely on MB basis (Toni Kroos/Josh Kimmich/Lionel Messi have proved that) but if they have no resale value you are holding simply on the 'hope' that they might one day win a PB...

For me, you want a player that you feel will spark 'interest'... one that by moving from A to B he will excite the media buzzers, by moving from A to B he will appreciate in value... If Jan Bednarak went from Southampton to Tottenham for example would anyone care??? A slow media day might get you a top three in a Pierre Hojbjerg kind of way... But JonJo Shelvey getting a sideways EPL move to Aston Villa might spark even more interest... An England cap perhaps? Suddenly a player can re-find his sexual features amongst supporters and suddenly people are talking about him and the fact he's never ever had hair!

I think Shelvey offers good (outside bet) value because he's English and is a good age for one last big deal... Jan Bednarek however could become the next Victor Lindelof or the next Dejan Lovren... The next Toby Alderweireld? His price all depends on where he 'might' go? You could hold for two years and nothing... You might make 20p from a good performance at Burnley... or you can wait until speculation starts.. Buy slightly higher, sell as he spikes with interest and make that 20p in a shorter period of time?

I never wanted these... I don't really get the demand... OK you have a price in your mind when you want to buy a future... you have a price in your mind you want to sell a future... But surely that changes subject to situation?

Take market leader Jadon Sancho for example... I want to buy him for under £10... say 9.99 top... I need him to fall in form, break a leg, announce his hatred for Man Utd for that to happen... But then he becomes much less than the 'order price' I currently value him at?

Should I want to sell him for example, I put a cap on £15... He scores a hat-trick, Man Utd move in for him, he scores again, his value rises through transfer speculation... But do i cut at £15???? Or do i keep going until the media buzz dies down? After all he's earning dividends by the day for two weeks after a transfer despite an inevitable dip on signing for United?

My point, isn't best practice to sell upon him signing elsewhere? or when he's at the height of his game? And buy when he's at the lowest point... Not necessarily mid-way through a dip which sparks your order off?

I've always felt the best investors on Football Index invest on 'gut' feeling and by 'ordering' there is no 'knee jerk gut' that allows you to take immediate opportunity and profit.

The aim is to buy low, beat the rush, jump on the train if you know it'll progress... sell high, beat the fall... Cash in when profit is good... For me 'order books' are just another 'tool' that slows down the volatility in the game, that makes it less exciting, that makes things less profitable with everybody wanting their 'price'.

Any contrasting thoughts?

I think even 'experienced' traders have experienced a lot of these 'mistakes' so we can all relate to them.

I compare 'now' and 'then' a lot but I do think by getting in when i did i benefited a lot from the sites early growth a long with share splits etc, so by having a portfolio of 'good players' it seemed enough for everything else to look after itself?

What I ask 'now' is when investing in a player, do I see 'short term' growth... Ie is a player expected later in the month to receive a first international call up? Is the player earmarked for a potential transfer? Do they have a run of games where they are likely to score goals?

Looking now for example at Jadon Sancho and thinking... what a great time to go back in for him after a £5+ drop in price?

The market has generally tumbled but savvy investors will see this as 'opportunity' to invest back in... but I would only do that 'now' on the basis of 'who' is going to top pack in media dividends over the next couple of weeks (as we are mostly without games) and after, who will scoring the goals to grab the headlines when the season kicks on again?

Maybe a good time to 'wait' depending on the type of player you invest in?

Anyone know how long the contract is??? presume one year???? If more than that would be really low risk... I think now he's made the move and the dust has settled that he won't be playing outside PB leagues it should see his price rise!!!

Sociedad in the past have been a great Friday/Monday night team and Silva is a decent PB scorer (if given 90 mins) so could be a low risk low punt investment that could return? Those who got in at 0.56 have done best as he's spiked suddenly over last couple of days!!!

@Hotspur it was 'investing' when i started... to put money in now would be 'gambling'...

I agree under the 'terms' it is all a gamble but due to the dynamics it's a little more complex than your traditional bet win or lose which i'm sure you agree on!

life is a gamble... but some are more educated gambles than others!

I suppose i've been lucky... Hopped on FI almost 3 years ago and more than doubled my return which i cashed out (plus interest) in Feb & March this year (before the dreaded COVID hit)...

Since then... i've done nothing... dabbled in the odd player through the money on account i have... tried to sell a few... without success...

I saw a slight rise in profit on my account on May from April and that soared to a good couple of hundred quid up by the start of July (thanks to incentives) but that has since fallen this month despite me owning more futures now....

I predict.... when football 'returns' and lets face it... it hasn't yet... Then these prices will again rise... But the longer 'normality' kicks in the longer we have to wait until it does...

The market is flat... the spreads are ridiculous... nobody is selling... I say sit tight, hold, keep buying and when this bollocks is all over lets get back on the saddle and start to enjoy life and investing (not gambling) again!!!!

not been here for a while but thought I would nip in to see what people are saying as I noticed the HUGE spread on my portfolio which made me question myself the 'real value' of players i owned on the basis i can't actually SELL anyone these days?

I'm hoping when football is back thriving again (come Oct/Nov perhaps) that this terrible time will all be forgotten but until then... I see no value in selling anything.... although you can still get a bargain when buying!!!

My only concern is WHY would I buy right now knowing if i did... I would be instantly at a huge loss thanks to spread (and lack of selling options) following any purchase made!!!