@Misto Amen. The moment the binary, all or nothing choice of remain or leave was put to to the people was the day this all went down the shitter. We are all biased, tribal and bigoted in our own ways, thats one of the reasons im sympathetic to the leavers argument regarding unfiltered immigration. Why on earth such a simple solution was put to the people regarding an unprecedented and complex scenario is beyond me.

And you are totally right. My mother always said that you have 2 ears and 1 mouth, that was wise advice pre 2016. That binary choice created 2 mouths and 0 ears. And if you use 2 ears and 1 mouth on centre ground you just end up getting inevitably caught in the crossfire and metaphorically punched from both sides. So maybe you are the wisest of us all in saying nothing.

It didnt end well for Theresa, as incompetent as she was i felt enormous sympathy for her today. She tried, i feel like she really did try even if im in a minority of 1. Some might say her tears were for herself. To me it felt like she knew we were not heading into a good place post her tenure. I feel more aligned with the centre right as a centre lefty than i do the fringes of either. With her now gone this is going to get much worse before or if it gets any better. On one side we are left with militant brexiteers who often have deep anarcho capitalist roots and a referendum result with which they can frame the discussion. Even without that leg to stand on they are naturally very persuasive. On the other side militant socialists. Fun times.

Any moderate person reading this would quickly realise how divided and polarised our country has become. When you enter the territory of point scoring and he said she said you should realise its time to take a time out on the naughty step.. Both sides are just as bad as each other. Both extremes like to present that they have the facts on their side but the content of the discussion is clearly driven by emotional tribalism.

Well given the way this discourse has gone at least the only positive that can be taken is the tories have finished themselves off. Those who should be championing the dangers of political revolution and the historical evidence that comes along with it are the ones who have created the conditions for it to happen. They deserve everything they get.

@Dan-The-Man I agree but the conversation isnt arguing for arbitrary discrimination against migrants. Just the power to discern who does and who does not come which i dont think is unreasonable. Just for the record i do think immigration generally has a net 'positive' affect on our country. But it obviously does come with a few 'negative' drawbacks in many communities and those drawbacks are very well documented throughout human history regarding how humans from different cultures interact with one another. I do not live in one of those communities negatively affected by it but again im sympathetic to those that are, just as im sympathetic to those trying to forge a better life for themselves. If i dont have an ego or any sense of self or identity, i go mad. If culture loses that sense of self or identity, its a given society will go mad too. The microcosm is a mirror of the macrocosm.

@Dan-The-Man Sorry bud but this is where we diverge a bit. Many people do kick down on all these issues no doubt but i feel boiling it down to this is too simplistic. I know some people do have legitimate concerns about immigration that dont affect me where i live. Im quite sympathetic to the leave campaign on this issue. If im hosting a dinner party at my house, my neighbours dont get to decide who is invited, i decide, there is no neighbourly council meeting on who can come, i decide. I have a filtering system and i do naturally discriminate. I dont arbitrarily let everyone in the world into my home without them being vetted by myself, so does everyone else to some degree i imagine. So to have that rule for myself in my own home but portray a different rule in the political sphere would make me a hypocrite. Nations should have that choice just like I as an individual have that choice.

Boiling it down to blame and hate totally is not a way any of these problems will ever be solved. The motivation for a good number of people who voted leave wasnt blame or hate and for them to be told that is going to infuriate and divide even more. One of the single biggest reasons this was caused was because people dont want to and cant have a sensible discussion regarding immigration and the benefits/problems it causes. Im not the person for that, im not a high level problem solver and a bit of a common spastic and am bound to trip up and say something stupid or inflammatory if i tried. Thats no good for me im temperamentally agreeable and i dont particularly like conflict. As far as im concerned we need as many people in the centre to sit on the see saw to stop this polarising further. If we dont i fear this is just going to get worse.

He is absolutely flying does anyone know why? i cant see any recent transfer links?

@Dan-The-Man. Yes I saw it, I didnt think James o'brien came across all that well in this though, he just tried to bull rush him which i dont find an effective or palatable interview technique more a verbal version of chinese water torture.

I do have a lot of sympathy for those who voted to leave and there seemingly being no sensible way of implementing it that wont cause a lot of pain. But listening to people like Mark Francois over and over again say things like 'leave means leave', 'rather be a poor master than rich slave' 'wto', 'remoaners' when faced with the complications of what leaving actually entails drains that sympathy somewhat, its the same populist nonsense tropes.

Rhetoric has no way of solving the complex problems that we have never faced/created in post war times. I consider myself moderately centre left. I am not really too much of a team player when it comes to this political divide and i'm not a fan of the EU but if i have to pick a side im not siding with the libertarian provocateurs who rile and bait just because thats what gets them hard even i it does provide mild entertainment on the tv. And yes ofc they are free to do that if they want but Im not a part of that team, thats not how im wired, i prefer kindness and tolerance in everyday life, Impulsive pity is both my vice and virtue.

Thats not to say im any better, its just how im wired. If the general population is more wired for an anarcho-capitialist winner takes all state then so be it, thats the state we all must survive in under democratic rule, its fucking very normal there will be kickback to this though, if i knew i would lose my livelihood within 2 weeks of a no deal id be kicking back hard too. I think we both know the vast majority are not wired to this just as i am not, if this causes the country to go to pot that is the last sort of state anyone with a moderate skill set from a working class background wants. You lose your job and your safety net in this society. And your skillset becomes far less desirable.

would highly recommend a book called 'the righteous mind' by a chap called Jonathan Haidt for anyone trying to understand the temperamental underpinnings of this political nonsense. Its pretty clear to me the Libertarian, anarcho-capitalist types have hijacked the public discourse which should be a concern to all who are not of that disposition which the vast majority of the population are not. And its no wonder they bloody pushed it through, they tend to be smarter than the average political voter who is more traditionally left or right leaning according to Haidt's work. All you need to do is have a listen to whats been going on in America the last 2 years and listen to who makes the more convincing argument in the public sphere (there are a multitude of youtube platforms), the left or right or libertarians?

And that saddens me to say because if they have their own way, those who have statistically the most disagreeable, least compassionate temperaments according to Haidts research are the ones who will run the show. I like Jacob reece mogg as an example. He comes across as polite, eloquent and well spoken and one of the most digestable of his type in the public space and looks to fly in the face of my previous comment. You rarely see him flustered in civil debates and nearly always has an answer for everything that often leave his opponents looking rather silly. But then you see daddys book and you realise hes just a Trojan horse type, a very, very likeable, convincing trojan horse. How much money has he profiteered in light of all this uncertainity?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Streets-Investment-Profits-World/dp/067162735X

@Daz-Sparks I dont have an answer buddy but iv been wondering the same thing myself. There are a lot of things about the site that can be polished up that would really compliment the products success in my opinion. Feels like a buggy premier manager 97 atm when it could be a football manager 2019. I cant access the players through positional filters either, it just goes blank. Would be great in they could fix these things in the near future along with a host of other things im sure others have alluded to before.