Dear Adam,

Congratulations on making Football index the most enjoyable and engaging football betting platform ever. I've been on here for a couple of years or so and absolutely love it!

However, my personal enjoyment does not seem to echo the general consensus of late, so I have to accept that I'm in the minority (which is incredible, given we've just had a dividend increase!)

The thing is, you guys keep making mistake after mistake after mistake, with alarming regularity. You never learn. Removing yourself from Instant Sell liability WITHOUT NOTICE was a clear breach of trust and showed a complete disregard for traders who may have spent months building a portfolio of the more risky holds. A calculated risk that faced a potential 50% loss if the old IS had to be resorted to, but that was suddenly removed, despite your promises to us on numerous occasions that it would always be available once order books came in. Effectively, traders have been missold shares over the last 12 months or so, buying with confidence that they could always sell them back to FI (at a big discount) via the "guaranteed" IS. This will need addressing and rectifying, which I'm sure you are already well aware of, so I won't go on about that.

This is what is more concerning to me - after almost 2 years, I've come to the conclusion that none of you at Football Index HQ actually truly understands how your own product works. Either that, or you are allowing those on your board with "traditional betting" backgrounds too much influence over a product they really can't fathom - you even said it yourself. that the gambling commission doesn't even fully understand what FI is!

Possibly the most important aspect of FI and it's USP is the ability to build a portfolio of players that can potentially win dividends and grow in value over their 3 year share lifespan - this is important, and listen carefully... even though you've stated the average length of hold in a share is generally less than a month (I find that difficult to believe personally), the reason people are selling & buying others is usually down to performance, rumours, injury, fixtures etc. Football is fluid and uncertain at the best of times. You only need to look at recent PB winners to see it's still very much a lottery!

So, with all this uncertainty impacting our 3 year "bets", it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that the rules of the game are static. This is something you guys just don't understand!
Change is BAD. Just the merest indication of a PB matrix change can stifle trading on many players, for fear of devaluation. Your disastrous Q&A, stating there would be a PB matrix review proved this and caused the market to freeze. Nobody was buying, despite some superb performances happening on the field which ordinarily would see traders pile in.
You guys rectified the problem fairly quickly with a very professional release which detailed NO matrix review within the clear roadmap issued, as well as the date the dividend review changes would be announced...EXCITING!

Trading once again came flooding back and the market was booming in the run up to the 9th July. Why? Simple. The promise of no changes to the rules of our bets (*glossing over the media review, which the community has clearly asked for) and the increase in potential payouts for the players we've been researching and adding to our portfolio over recent months/years even. It was all looking so good, it appeared that you guys finally understood what traders want and what causes them to invest more - stability. Of course, you just had to put out a tweet a couple of days before the announcement which only served to kill trading once again, with your indication of "generous and sensible" increase on the way (contradicting all the rockets and hype previously tweeted!) Communication really is one of the Index weak points but, like the removal of IS, that's for another time.

But anyway, then came the dividend review announcement on 9th at 5.13pm. I initially was wowed by the Team Of The Month dividend (I still absolutely love it ) but it distracted me from the facts - just when I thought you guys understood your product and what traders value most (stability, clarity, road map etc), you flip the entire market on its head again by adding two completely new dividends! TOTM, as I've said, is amazing, I love it. But to add a GK category completely out of the blue? THAT IS A MASSIVE CHANGE that impacts our bets! Don't get me wrong, I now think it's probably necessary to have a GK category going forward but to just drop it in like that? Huge faux pas.

I am really hoping that once the media review is complete and the sell orders of the ME come in (with FI also offering some form of IS), we are set up for the future. You need to stop interfering with our 3 year bets. Every little structural change you make is like throwing a pebble in the water - there is a massive ripple effect. There is already too much uncertainty in the game of football itself (making it hard for us to win) without you guys moving the goalposts constantly.
This platform really could reach that £1 billion target you've set but you've really got a lot to learn, about your own product and it's client base, before you get near that. Football Index isn't the only fish in the pond any more so you guys really have to understand just what it is about your product that is keeping most of us on board and what it is that separates you from the current also-rans.
I was over the moon initially after the recent divs announcement but now, after acknowledging the sentiment of most other traders, I'm feeling deflated and disinterested. It shouldn't be like this.

Yours Sincerely

Scouse Ste

I've been fairly vocal lately about my concerns as to how the platform is transforming but I've realised that I myself have probably contributed to the trend that is damaging my portfolio the most - I posted a thread a while back (which has recently resurfaced) about "fixture research = reward (potentially)".

In it, I detailed a team's upcoming fixtures and highlighted the short-term opportunities (which turned out to be quite lucrative for those who followed the advice of others who also contributed to the thread).

Today I see a few other threads highlighting IPD opportunities over the next 30 days or players with easy fixtures coming up. But what I DON'T see are any posts about dividends - who has won what so far, who has just missed out by a point or two, etc.
If long-term trading is to stand any chance of rebounding in the next few weeks rather than months or years, then it is up to us to highlight and reinforce the importance of MB and PB dividends

So, starting today, I'm going to log down on this thread the daily dividend winners, including their scores and also the type of game day they featured in. Then, either fortnightly or monthly I'll compile a table to make analysis easier and HOPEFULLY encourage more traders to see the light when it comes to the attraction in dividend earners

Fantastic post 👌

I love this : We have a saying in poker when you find a fish. "Don't tap the glass." 😂😂

As an infrequent poker player (recovering addict shall we say😉) I have my "fishy" moments and yes overall I am down (probably around 10k over the last 20 years).

I was lucky though, in the fact that I identified my problem myself (albeit after a third bank loan in as many weeks to try and recoup my losses was refused 🙈😁).

I realised I played poker out of boredom, spending all my wages halfway through the month regularly. Even when I won, I'd keep playing, up the stakes and blow it all.

The problem I had with poker, which could be compared to FI, is i had no exit strategy.
So I had to exit for good. Self exclusion on all sites.

Best move I made 💪. Searched for a hobby to fill the void that quitting poker left, randomly chose painting...5 years later and I'm making a living as a portrait painter and run my own shop/gallery.
What's more, painting taught me a very important quality which is perfectly suited to succeed on FI...

PATIENCE

If you are a new user, you may have seen this anacronysm and been confused - for example "I just bought 300 Harry Kane through FOMO!"
Is FOMO some kind of discount website where I can get FI shares cheaper?? NOPE 😆

It stands for 'Fear Of Missing Out' and is something that has influenced probably 99% of us traders, particularly at the start of our FI journey.

It describes the behavioural urge to suddenly get involved in a trade (buying) that we know very little about, just because everybody else seem to be piling in. If you experience FOMO and get in near the start of an upward spike, it can actually be lucrative, sure, but you've got to be lucky. Most of the time, through FOMO, you will blindly buy in and could be left quite exposed.

Some traders keep large chunks of cash ready to capitalise on breaking news or even rumours, and that's a good way to make money I'm sure. So, these guys pounce early on the news and secure a substantial hold at a sound price. As the news filters round, others who also have cash ready for such rumours also pile in. The price is pushed up further and further. These guys are probably still in a "safe" position.
But now FOMO spreads and traders irrationally deviate from their portfolio strategy, instant sell solid holds (losing commission plus big spread) and panic buy near the top of the spike. Within the hour, the guys who bought in first either instant sell or just list to market and they are out with nice profit. The price slows or starts to fall a bit, so the guys who came in just after the start IS and claim a small profit.
Those who bought in through FOMO at the end are left with a hold in the red, and a feeling of annoyance at themselves for not sticking to their principles and acting impulsively.

This is not the end.... If we look at the Dybala case, people who bought through FOMO and got in at the £4.05 spike would have been a bit sick to be down to £3.95 at the end of the day. But, holding in the anticipation of a rise again, that sick feeling turns to devastation when they look at FI the following day and his price has crashed to £2.85 because the United move is off. ABSOLUTE SICKENER!! "Why did I even get involved in this???"
So, a devastating Instant Sell later and you're down hundreds. Well, that's over and move on eh?
Oh nooooo.....DYBALA RUMOURS RESURFACE the very next day and the price recovers somewhat!!
"OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!"

This is just a hypothetical example, but it serves as a "worst case scenario" of what FOMO can cause.
I personally lost a few quid when Barkley got into the England set up in Oct/Nov 2018. Bought at the top and saw it dwindle and dwindle. I instant sold some decent players to fund it too. Once bitten, twice shy!

Basically, all I am saying is, BE CAREFUL GUYS! If a player on the rise was never in your plans or you know nothing about him, don't feel you HAVE TO get involved. Stick to your game plan and you'll do well on here 👍🏻

You guys moaning or disappointed. You don't get it. Think bigger picture.

Firstly, the gk divs category was a curveball but fine, I'll accept that. The area that was neglected now is represented and it completes the PB structure making it "future proof".
It's only a small payout and once this initial scramble to own keepers dies down, money will return to those players in your port that were ISd during the FOMO 👍🏻

Secondly, the BIG ONE...Team of The Month. Absolutely amazing! "But it's only 10p you're playing for" or "it's just an extra gold and silver day added, rubbish!" I am seeing a lot. WRONG!
It's 51p EXTRA dividends, not just 10p. In a balanced portfolio, its not inconceivable to get 3, 4 or 5+winners a month BY DOING NOTHING! You don't even have to renew the shares like with IPD's and you can even buy players with just over a week to go in that month to still qualify for the payouts if they get into the TOTM! It's incredible.
It will add so much value to consistent performers, whilst the cheap stocks will still hit that gold day lottery now and then, which incidentally has risen slightly too!

TOTM is a masterstroke - it's definitely going to strike a chord with the fantasy football type punter, and the strategy and enjoyment levels are going to be unprecedented. Researching fixtures in advance becomes more rewarding, and picture this....
it's the 21st of the month - You own Messi, who is top of TOTM fwds with 660 points, Ronaldo second on 650. Werner for Chelsea is 3rd on 595. Barcelona have no more games left but Juve and Chelsea have one. IMAGINE THE EXCITEMENT AND TENSION WATCHING THOSE GAMES! Praying for a score of under 200 from each! Ahhhh but heartbreak on 30th of the month as out of nowhere Dries Mertens bags a hat trick for Napoli and a 307 score, pushing his average from out of the placings into the top spot and taking the 10p! Oh the drama lads!!! IMAGINE THIS EXCITMENT x 11 (the number of positions you can win divs from).

I say again, this enjoyment and drama, coupled with the relative predictability in winning (you get 3 weeks worth of results before you need to buy!) is going to catapult Fi towards that billion pound target! It's incredible. The whales will come!!

And we've STILL got media, another fairly predictable dividend income, AND regular PB and Ipds.

Honestly I'm so stunned at the adverse reaction from traders. Bigger picture, this is MASSIVE!

I remember when I first started FI in October 2018, and I couldn't get my head round why Pogba was winning media all the time. Typical Scouse Ste, I was moaning about it on the forum and saying how shit it was and biased etc. You know by now how I roll 😜. You know what people on here said? Instead of moaning...just BUY him!" It was a big step back then to buy a United player 😆 but I did. And I made good money.

That's it, that's the end of the story 👍🏻

Oh no, wait, I knew there was something else. So this is tonight's media chart from a couple of hours ago, and it's pretty consistent with what it usually looks like...

The message nearly TWO YEARS ON remains similar - don't moan that United players win media all the time....just buy them 👍🏻 Cool. Makes sense.

Now.....let's talk about PB and where the hypocrisy comes in...
I asked on a thread yesterday if anyone can give me even just ONE name of a player who wins PB at least 1 in 4 games. There are none. 1 in 5 games then? Probably not. Yet apparently the PB matrix is biased? Biased towards crosses in particular. Let's have a look at last night's PB winners then, from just single a game day...

Ahhhh Filip Crosstic won! It must be true then. He executed 16 crosses last night. Excellent! So the same people telling you to buy United players instead of moaning, about the MB system are also telling you to buy attack-minded players (like Kostic and TAA) who see lots of the ball, dominate games and put in plenty of crosses and regularly get assists, yea?
NOPE. Far from it.
Surprisingly, instead of buying into the players most likely to win PB (although still a lottery and nowhere near as predictable as MB) they would rather see a change to the PB scoring system! Why?

Ahh it must be because the weighting of crosses is so bad that it paints a completely different picture to what actually happened on the pitch (yet people are happy to earn payouts for a Pogba haircut instead of a Messi hat trick story 🙄). Well let's see. Let's have a look at sofascore from last night...

Well it looks like Kostic is the highest rated starting player by sofascore, so that tells me that the PB matrix is pretty good. No glaringly obvious discrepancy. As I thought.

So my question is this... WHY do so many people seem to be happy with a biased, predictable media system, yet seem hell-bent on fiddling with a PB system that is actually FAR from predictable, is still a lottery on most silver and gold days, and tweaking it will change the bets of THOUSANDS OF FI USERS?

I ask this ahead of any surveys we get from FI in the next few days/weeks

One is falling and one is rising. There is no connection, I wanted to create a thread that sounds like a quite well known band.

I'll probably delete it 😊

Still a much more credible thread than "Henderson v Neymar" 😄

I just wanted to record this on the forum, so there's a log of it somewhere.

Overnight I reached a milestone that far surpassed the expectations of when I signed up to FI back in September '18 when I cautiously deposited £300.
By the November, I'd deposited 5 times (champs league reference there 😉) that amount, £1500, which was and will always be my initial investment limit.
At this early point, I was in profit by what looked healthy to this newbie - up £63.75.

As you can see from my little tracker spreadsheet, I was trading too often and making BAD decisions, consolidating losses and generally losing money (if you don't include the big increase in cap app):

So, from 1st November I have had £1500 invested in FI and today (less than 6 months later) that initial £63.75 profit has turned into £1000.00+ 😱🙃😜. AN INCREDIBLE 67% ROI ALREADY!!

Of course, I expect a drop-off over the summer and once people withdraw after these summer bonuses are complete, but still this is unbelievable value! FI absolutely smashes other platforms!
Once they iron out all the consistent problems and bugs, get the order book system in place and perhaps even expand into new territories, then THIS TIME NEXT YEAR RODNEY.... 🤑

Well after a few months sabbatical, good to see the forum is still as mental as ever!!

GREETINGS ONE AND ALL!!

yea a fair few players for me today too.

Hoping for another Bayern masterclass, led by Kimmich, but barring that, I am really looking forward to 8pm...

The biggest heavyweight clash we have had in a while - Messi playing at the same time as Neymar! That will be me glued to the PB charts.

First out the gate for me is Sheffield United though, hoping young Ethan Ampadu gets a start with Egan being suspended for a red card. Got a lot of of faith that this young lad might be a breakout star in the next couple of years.

Anyway, good day all! Should be a cracker!

@MickTurbo said in Fixture research = reward (potentially!):

@ScouseSte lol, I didnt mean me mate I dont hold. I'd normally say that being in paper red doesnt matter cos your entry fee to the bet is unchanged and it's purely to extract the 20p, but youd be losing the 14p PB + commission so youd basically be making 2.8pps, probs just sit tight

I managed to recycle a small batch - IS'd at £1.67 and bought back at £1.69 :) Small gains but also means eligible for Wednesdays game

ahhh shit, I've just done meself for TOTM if he gets in avent i??

Shit

Should have just sat tight, as you said ha!

@MickTurbo said in Fixture research = reward (potentially!):

@ScouseSte perhaps you can find solace with a fellow holder going through similar anguish 😉

Haha what do we do Mick?

Inevitably he'll drop a bit after Wednesday. So do we take the 20p now but have a larger holding that's susceptible to a bigger loss if he bombs on Wednesday??

Heads battered here haha!

@ScouseSte said in Fixture research = reward (potentially!):

In similar fashion to Badiashile, another defender worth buying for IPD's (and also a more likely PB winner) is the dirty 'orrible scumbag SERGIO RAMOS!

Buying today means you qualify for 3 games in September(20p per goal) but if you do the same as Badiashile and buy on or after 5th September, your IPD's qualify for the following games:

20/09 Sociadad v Madrid (20p IPDs)
27/09 Betis v Madrid (20p IPDs)
30/09 Madrid v Valladolid (20p IPDs)
04/10 Levante v Madrid (4p IPD's)

Ramos takes penalties, so a much higher chance of IPD's than Badiashile. But Ramos is not a long term hold option (age) so there are pros and cons with this punt. At £1.37 though, the downside is minimal when you look at his potential PB returns across the next 12 months.

I hate the dirty bastard but he does look like value at the min

Gutted, i friggin forgot to recycle him! Didn't realise my 30 days was up last week FFS!!!

Nice PB win but do i top up to get the 20p for his goal (playing again on Wednesday)?

what happened to Kroos?

@howsthebacon

haha! brilliant!

@howsthebacon said in Is this what's coming:

@ScouseSte but not Kimmich though...Kimmich will be fine come nuclear war or natural disaster

Yes. correct.

Kimmich is the cockroach!

@Advinculas-Index said in Is this what's coming:

@ScouseSte

Its probably more to do with the fact that he got an assist and scored the winning goal and still only got 220 points and wont be picking up any PB, He will probably win MB 5p divs but even thats not a foregone conclusion, and on days where he is not playing the MB ship seems to have sailed for him now as well - This will be compounded further should Sancho move to Man United.

id rather have 4 or 5 players who are proven PB winners who you will probably be able to snap up for around £2 after this weekend

That's probably the thought process of many others too.

He played awful today though. I do think United will improve massively as they get fitter and sharper. And Bruno will get more corners, free kicks etc. His giveaway passes are what is crucifying him. Once he sharpens up, i think theres a PB beast in there. The money will come back into him before long

But yea, ive been selling off 20-30% in each of my top-enders (not bruno, topped up on him!) to spread it around the cheaper players. Not even for IPDs. Just de-risking in clearly still uncertain times

Bruno has fallen by mistake, trust me

I think a lot of traders are looking to get out of the top end temporarily so they can buy plenty of cheapies in this last weekend/week of 5xIPDs

So they listed Bruno when he scored, expecting him to sell easily.

But the mistake was, they didn't take into account that 10p for a goal and 5p for an assist is not going to cause a massive pile in on a player who is £8.50 (it works out less than 2%)

So, all they've succeeded in doing is retain their shares whilst drive down the price, allowing buyers to bid real low and get great bargains.

Pointless really, may as well just de-list and instant sell now. Or be smart and just keep hold

@Shippers said in BIRTHDAY BONUS BABY:

@ScouseSte said in BIRTHDAY BONUS BABY:

@howsthebacon said in BIRTHDAY BONUS BABY:

Am I the only one thinking about holding tight til October and then seeing what happens before throwing the money in?

Like most announcements, a lot of traders react quickly but not necessarily wisely!

So many buys going through at market price, like Messi for example, who you could have bought via bids all week for 40-50p cheaper (close to 10%). So with your 8.5% bonus back, you're still down

Yes mate there will be lots of opportunities to spunk your cash balance between now and 16th, which will likely earn you far more than getting involved now :)

Id actually say this announcement has been different to others, people ploughing into PB beasts but the right ones, mainly KDB, Kimmich and Messi it seems plus those at middle range. Usually its crazy and everyone gets a bit but Sancho for example hasn't been touched (for obvious reasons in my eyes). I'd say there is a little more sensible approach with the buys (in most cases).

Oh no i agree, they are buying the right players but for an exorbitant amount compared to putting bids in this week.
The players circumstances are all exactly the same.

I guess its like anything on here though, faster finger first (depending on if your app didnt crash).

With the spreads still so wide though, its too tempting to just bid.