Dear Adam,

Congratulations on making Football index the most enjoyable and engaging football betting platform ever. I've been on here for a couple of years or so and absolutely love it!

However, my personal enjoyment does not seem to echo the general consensus of late, so I have to accept that I'm in the minority (which is incredible, given we've just had a dividend increase!)

The thing is, you guys keep making mistake after mistake after mistake, with alarming regularity. You never learn. Removing yourself from Instant Sell liability WITHOUT NOTICE was a clear breach of trust and showed a complete disregard for traders who may have spent months building a portfolio of the more risky holds. A calculated risk that faced a potential 50% loss if the old IS had to be resorted to, but that was suddenly removed, despite your promises to us on numerous occasions that it would always be available once order books came in. Effectively, traders have been missold shares over the last 12 months or so, buying with confidence that they could always sell them back to FI (at a big discount) via the "guaranteed" IS. This will need addressing and rectifying, which I'm sure you are already well aware of, so I won't go on about that.

This is what is more concerning to me - after almost 2 years, I've come to the conclusion that none of you at Football Index HQ actually truly understands how your own product works. Either that, or you are allowing those on your board with "traditional betting" backgrounds too much influence over a product they really can't fathom - you even said it yourself. that the gambling commission doesn't even fully understand what FI is!

Possibly the most important aspect of FI and it's USP is the ability to build a portfolio of players that can potentially win dividends and grow in value over their 3 year share lifespan - this is important, and listen carefully... even though you've stated the average length of hold in a share is generally less than a month (I find that difficult to believe personally), the reason people are selling & buying others is usually down to performance, rumours, injury, fixtures etc. Football is fluid and uncertain at the best of times. You only need to look at recent PB winners to see it's still very much a lottery!

So, with all this uncertainty impacting our 3 year "bets", it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that the rules of the game are static. This is something you guys just don't understand!
Change is BAD. Just the merest indication of a PB matrix change can stifle trading on many players, for fear of devaluation. Your disastrous Q&A, stating there would be a PB matrix review proved this and caused the market to freeze. Nobody was buying, despite some superb performances happening on the field which ordinarily would see traders pile in.
You guys rectified the problem fairly quickly with a very professional release which detailed NO matrix review within the clear roadmap issued, as well as the date the dividend review changes would be announced...EXCITING!

Trading once again came flooding back and the market was booming in the run up to the 9th July. Why? Simple. The promise of no changes to the rules of our bets (*glossing over the media review, which the community has clearly asked for) and the increase in potential payouts for the players we've been researching and adding to our portfolio over recent months/years even. It was all looking so good, it appeared that you guys finally understood what traders want and what causes them to invest more - stability. Of course, you just had to put out a tweet a couple of days before the announcement which only served to kill trading once again, with your indication of "generous and sensible" increase on the way (contradicting all the rockets and hype previously tweeted!) Communication really is one of the Index weak points but, like the removal of IS, that's for another time.

But anyway, then came the dividend review announcement on 9th at 5.13pm. I initially was wowed by the Team Of The Month dividend (I still absolutely love it ) but it distracted me from the facts - just when I thought you guys understood your product and what traders value most (stability, clarity, road map etc), you flip the entire market on its head again by adding two completely new dividends! TOTM, as I've said, is amazing, I love it. But to add a GK category completely out of the blue? THAT IS A MASSIVE CHANGE that impacts our bets! Don't get me wrong, I now think it's probably necessary to have a GK category going forward but to just drop it in like that? Huge faux pas.

I am really hoping that once the media review is complete and the sell orders of the ME come in (with FI also offering some form of IS), we are set up for the future. You need to stop interfering with our 3 year bets. Every little structural change you make is like throwing a pebble in the water - there is a massive ripple effect. There is already too much uncertainty in the game of football itself (making it hard for us to win) without you guys moving the goalposts constantly.
This platform really could reach that £1 billion target you've set but you've really got a lot to learn, about your own product and it's client base, before you get near that. Football Index isn't the only fish in the pond any more so you guys really have to understand just what it is about your product that is keeping most of us on board and what it is that separates you from the current also-rans.
I was over the moon initially after the recent divs announcement but now, after acknowledging the sentiment of most other traders, I'm feeling deflated and disinterested. It shouldn't be like this.

Yours Sincerely

Scouse Ste

The dynamics and the intricacies of the market are fascinating and complex, as are the various backgrounds and profiles of us traders that feed into it. We are all individuals, yet collectively we control the way the market moves.

Currently, the market is clearly moving downwards. This is largely being blamed on the change in the trading system, going from prices being generated by volume of investment to now simply what someone wants to offer.

And just like that, the majority of traders have put their hands up and said "take what you want from me, I won't resist"
Traders who previously paid £5 pound for a player without batting an eyelid because they'd properly researched and established he was undervalued (based on projected div earnings etc), are now offloading the same player at £3.50. Why?
Has the player's circumstances worsened? No
Have divs been cut? No - they have doubled!

It's simply a case of psychology and trader mentality - we are being lambasted by negative posts on the forum and Twitter, all contributing to the self-fulfilling prophecy that the market is crashing and players are overpriced. So the trader believes this and instant sells a solid, undervalued hold for a pittance.
A hold he had no intention of selling any time soon either!
The sheep mentality

It's time to make a stand people! Are you gonna be a sheep? Or are you gonna be a Wolf?

Look at your portfolio, look at your holds, remember why you bought them - analyse their potential for dividend returns and subsequent capital appreciation and then question why you should now accept over 25-50% less on that player. The answer is, you shouldn't.

1. If you had no intention of selling anyway, then now is most certainly not the time
2. If you bought to sell on at a profit but the buyers are offering less than what you paid, don't cave in to them. Hold, and wait for the right time. You've got 3 years ;)

It's like voting - people often say "my one vote won't make a difference" but then you always get the response "but if everyone thought like that blah blah". The thing is, its true!

If every single one us stands firm and refuses to accept the derisory bids from buyers, then the balance of power will shift. Bids will increase in value, sell offers won't fall so low and prices will hold, eventually starting to rise again.

I am just one voice, but if we all adjust our mentality then we CAN improve the situation. Take the power out of the buyers hands and give it back to the sellers...yes, that means you!

I firmly believe that we are now seeing the backlash from FI having an identity crisis, onboarding swathes of traditional "punters" in the past 18 months who are now massively out of their depth and completely disillusioned with the platform. It's perfectly understandable and acceptable.

It's not just a case of the new "punter-trader" not fully comprehending the platform dynamics (not easy these days!), it is also the fact that the risk-reward factor is nowhere near the level required to float their boat, as such.

A £10 first goal-scorer bet can earn your typical punter anything from £20-£400 back from the bookie, almost instantly - massive reward! Of course, you can lose your tenner just as quickly.

Alternatively, that £10 can get you 50 shares in a risky 20p hold on Football Index and you can hope he earns some divs or maybe grows in cap app - the rewards are much less on FI than traditional "betting" and they take so much longer to accumulate (up to 3 years), yet now with no guaranteed IS on many players, the risks are not that dissimilar.

So, the exodus from those who have an appetite for high risk & high reward is nothing to fear, it's just the changing of the guard

The platform will become populated with a similar demographic that was present when I joined in 2018 - the largely risk-averse, patient, strategically minded type of person - "investors" rather than "gamblers", if you will.

The type of people happy to earn 15% ROI per year on an asset they can then sell on at a likely profit. Modest, safe gains, with the odd exception here and there (insert rockets emoji ha!)

I remember when I joined FI, any downturn at any time was always countered with "what are you up now % wise compared to an ISA?" and it always put things into perspective. No brainer.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are heading back towards an investment platform, one that is a hell of a lot more fun than an ISA and more rewarding. If you left William Hill or Coral to come here and it isn't for you anymore, nobody will begrudge you leaving. FI is finding its identity again and going back to its roots. It won't be for everyone

I wish you good luck if you are selling up and hope you are prosperous in your traditional gambling exploits.
And if, like me, you are bloody excited for the future of this fine platform and are strapped in for the long haul, I salute you too!

WE GO AGAIN!

I've been fairly vocal lately about my concerns as to how the platform is transforming but I've realised that I myself have probably contributed to the trend that is damaging my portfolio the most - I posted a thread a while back (which has recently resurfaced) about "fixture research = reward (potentially)".

In it, I detailed a team's upcoming fixtures and highlighted the short-term opportunities (which turned out to be quite lucrative for those who followed the advice of others who also contributed to the thread).

Today I see a few other threads highlighting IPD opportunities over the next 30 days or players with easy fixtures coming up. But what I DON'T see are any posts about dividends - who has won what so far, who has just missed out by a point or two, etc.
If long-term trading is to stand any chance of rebounding in the next few weeks rather than months or years, then it is up to us to highlight and reinforce the importance of MB and PB dividends

So, starting today, I'm going to log down on this thread the daily dividend winners, including their scores and also the type of game day they featured in. Then, either fortnightly or monthly I'll compile a table to make analysis easier and HOPEFULLY encourage more traders to see the light when it comes to the attraction in dividend earners

Fantastic post 👌

I love this : We have a saying in poker when you find a fish. "Don't tap the glass." 😂😂

As an infrequent poker player (recovering addict shall we say😉) I have my "fishy" moments and yes overall I am down (probably around 10k over the last 20 years).

I was lucky though, in the fact that I identified my problem myself (albeit after a third bank loan in as many weeks to try and recoup my losses was refused 🙈😁).

I realised I played poker out of boredom, spending all my wages halfway through the month regularly. Even when I won, I'd keep playing, up the stakes and blow it all.

The problem I had with poker, which could be compared to FI, is i had no exit strategy.
So I had to exit for good. Self exclusion on all sites.

Best move I made 💪. Searched for a hobby to fill the void that quitting poker left, randomly chose painting...5 years later and I'm making a living as a portrait painter and run my own shop/gallery.
What's more, painting taught me a very important quality which is perfectly suited to succeed on FI...

PATIENCE

If you are a new user, you may have seen this anacronysm and been confused - for example "I just bought 300 Harry Kane through FOMO!"
Is FOMO some kind of discount website where I can get FI shares cheaper?? NOPE 😆

It stands for 'Fear Of Missing Out' and is something that has influenced probably 99% of us traders, particularly at the start of our FI journey.

It describes the behavioural urge to suddenly get involved in a trade (buying) that we know very little about, just because everybody else seem to be piling in. If you experience FOMO and get in near the start of an upward spike, it can actually be lucrative, sure, but you've got to be lucky. Most of the time, through FOMO, you will blindly buy in and could be left quite exposed.

Some traders keep large chunks of cash ready to capitalise on breaking news or even rumours, and that's a good way to make money I'm sure. So, these guys pounce early on the news and secure a substantial hold at a sound price. As the news filters round, others who also have cash ready for such rumours also pile in. The price is pushed up further and further. These guys are probably still in a "safe" position.
But now FOMO spreads and traders irrationally deviate from their portfolio strategy, instant sell solid holds (losing commission plus big spread) and panic buy near the top of the spike. Within the hour, the guys who bought in first either instant sell or just list to market and they are out with nice profit. The price slows or starts to fall a bit, so the guys who came in just after the start IS and claim a small profit.
Those who bought in through FOMO at the end are left with a hold in the red, and a feeling of annoyance at themselves for not sticking to their principles and acting impulsively.

This is not the end.... If we look at the Dybala case, people who bought through FOMO and got in at the £4.05 spike would have been a bit sick to be down to £3.95 at the end of the day. But, holding in the anticipation of a rise again, that sick feeling turns to devastation when they look at FI the following day and his price has crashed to £2.85 because the United move is off. ABSOLUTE SICKENER!! "Why did I even get involved in this???"
So, a devastating Instant Sell later and you're down hundreds. Well, that's over and move on eh?
Oh nooooo.....DYBALA RUMOURS RESURFACE the very next day and the price recovers somewhat!!
"OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!"

This is just a hypothetical example, but it serves as a "worst case scenario" of what FOMO can cause.
I personally lost a few quid when Barkley got into the England set up in Oct/Nov 2018. Bought at the top and saw it dwindle and dwindle. I instant sold some decent players to fund it too. Once bitten, twice shy!

Basically, all I am saying is, BE CAREFUL GUYS! If a player on the rise was never in your plans or you know nothing about him, don't feel you HAVE TO get involved. Stick to your game plan and you'll do well on here 👍🏻

You guys moaning or disappointed. You don't get it. Think bigger picture.

Firstly, the gk divs category was a curveball but fine, I'll accept that. The area that was neglected now is represented and it completes the PB structure making it "future proof".
It's only a small payout and once this initial scramble to own keepers dies down, money will return to those players in your port that were ISd during the FOMO 👍🏻

Secondly, the BIG ONE...Team of The Month. Absolutely amazing! "But it's only 10p you're playing for" or "it's just an extra gold and silver day added, rubbish!" I am seeing a lot. WRONG!
It's 51p EXTRA dividends, not just 10p. In a balanced portfolio, its not inconceivable to get 3, 4 or 5+winners a month BY DOING NOTHING! You don't even have to renew the shares like with IPD's and you can even buy players with just over a week to go in that month to still qualify for the payouts if they get into the TOTM! It's incredible.
It will add so much value to consistent performers, whilst the cheap stocks will still hit that gold day lottery now and then, which incidentally has risen slightly too!

TOTM is a masterstroke - it's definitely going to strike a chord with the fantasy football type punter, and the strategy and enjoyment levels are going to be unprecedented. Researching fixtures in advance becomes more rewarding, and picture this....
it's the 21st of the month - You own Messi, who is top of TOTM fwds with 660 points, Ronaldo second on 650. Werner for Chelsea is 3rd on 595. Barcelona have no more games left but Juve and Chelsea have one. IMAGINE THE EXCITEMENT AND TENSION WATCHING THOSE GAMES! Praying for a score of under 200 from each! Ahhhh but heartbreak on 30th of the month as out of nowhere Dries Mertens bags a hat trick for Napoli and a 307 score, pushing his average from out of the placings into the top spot and taking the 10p! Oh the drama lads!!! IMAGINE THIS EXCITMENT x 11 (the number of positions you can win divs from).

I say again, this enjoyment and drama, coupled with the relative predictability in winning (you get 3 weeks worth of results before you need to buy!) is going to catapult Fi towards that billion pound target! It's incredible. The whales will come!!

And we've STILL got media, another fairly predictable dividend income, AND regular PB and Ipds.

Honestly I'm so stunned at the adverse reaction from traders. Bigger picture, this is MASSIVE!

I just wanted to record this on the forum, so there's a log of it somewhere.

Overnight I reached a milestone that far surpassed the expectations of when I signed up to FI back in September '18 when I cautiously deposited £300.
By the November, I'd deposited 5 times (champs league reference there 😉) that amount, £1500, which was and will always be my initial investment limit.
At this early point, I was in profit by what looked healthy to this newbie - up £63.75.

As you can see from my little tracker spreadsheet, I was trading too often and making BAD decisions, consolidating losses and generally losing money (if you don't include the big increase in cap app):

So, from 1st November I have had £1500 invested in FI and today (less than 6 months later) that initial £63.75 profit has turned into £1000.00+ 😱🙃😜. AN INCREDIBLE 67% ROI ALREADY!!

Of course, I expect a drop-off over the summer and once people withdraw after these summer bonuses are complete, but still this is unbelievable value! FI absolutely smashes other platforms!
Once they iron out all the consistent problems and bugs, get the order book system in place and perhaps even expand into new territories, then THIS TIME NEXT YEAR RODNEY.... 🤑

I remember when I first started FI in October 2018, and I couldn't get my head round why Pogba was winning media all the time. Typical Scouse Ste, I was moaning about it on the forum and saying how shit it was and biased etc. You know by now how I roll 😜. You know what people on here said? Instead of moaning...just BUY him!" It was a big step back then to buy a United player 😆 but I did. And I made good money.

That's it, that's the end of the story 👍🏻

Oh no, wait, I knew there was something else. So this is tonight's media chart from a couple of hours ago, and it's pretty consistent with what it usually looks like...

The message nearly TWO YEARS ON remains similar - don't moan that United players win media all the time....just buy them 👍🏻 Cool. Makes sense.

Now.....let's talk about PB and where the hypocrisy comes in...
I asked on a thread yesterday if anyone can give me even just ONE name of a player who wins PB at least 1 in 4 games. There are none. 1 in 5 games then? Probably not. Yet apparently the PB matrix is biased? Biased towards crosses in particular. Let's have a look at last night's PB winners then, from just single a game day...

Ahhhh Filip Crosstic won! It must be true then. He executed 16 crosses last night. Excellent! So the same people telling you to buy United players instead of moaning, about the MB system are also telling you to buy attack-minded players (like Kostic and TAA) who see lots of the ball, dominate games and put in plenty of crosses and regularly get assists, yea?
NOPE. Far from it.
Surprisingly, instead of buying into the players most likely to win PB (although still a lottery and nowhere near as predictable as MB) they would rather see a change to the PB scoring system! Why?

Ahh it must be because the weighting of crosses is so bad that it paints a completely different picture to what actually happened on the pitch (yet people are happy to earn payouts for a Pogba haircut instead of a Messi hat trick story 🙄). Well let's see. Let's have a look at sofascore from last night...

Well it looks like Kostic is the highest rated starting player by sofascore, so that tells me that the PB matrix is pretty good. No glaringly obvious discrepancy. As I thought.

So my question is this... WHY do so many people seem to be happy with a biased, predictable media system, yet seem hell-bent on fiddling with a PB system that is actually FAR from predictable, is still a lottery on most silver and gold days, and tweaking it will change the bets of THOUSANDS OF FI USERS?

I ask this ahead of any surveys we get from FI in the next few days/weeks

At some point in the future, there will likely be a matrix review. Inaccurate crosses are too generously rewarded, and Game Winning Goal gives too many extra points to a player who may have only scored the first in a 6-0 thrashing.
These are just two slight annoyances of the current PB scoring system, which we all know could be improved slightly.

The last PB matrix review was began with a series of surveys sent to traders across a period of a few weeks, followed by weeks of advance notice that an announcement would be made, followed by the announcement and then the actual date the changes went live.

We have just been given a survey regarding MB, so it is extremely likely that changes to how media is reported/scored will be implemented perhaps in time for the start of next season.
This will significantly change our current "bets", so I am very much of the opinion that a PB matrix review will not take place until around 2021. It would surely be unjustifiable to move the goalposts so much in one hit, and even FI aren't stupid enough to do that! Are they? 😂.

Some traders are insinuating that a PB matrix change is almost certainly happening soon, and using this fake news (which is all it is - there has been zero mention of any such review by FI management) to cast doubt over certain investments and scaremonger traders into selling up.
As a result, these easily-influenced traders have lost a lot of money from instant-selling (their choice, I know) but have also missed out on dividends too, from PERFECTLY SOLID HOLDS. And those dividends are going to keep on rolling in, as long as the players in question continue to excel - what's more, even WITH a matrix change, who is to say the new version wouldn't benefit these players even MORE, in perhaps a different area of their game (ie assists could score almost as much as a goal)?

The worst thing about FI is the relative ease with which it is to spread fear and influence behaviour.
And what's even worse is when traders do it behind the phony veil of "I just don't want other traders to get burnt!" Yeaaaa right! Let's call out bullshit when we see it folks - isn't it funny how the "impending matrix review" only gets shoehorned in on threads featuring Trent Alexander-Arnold or Tony Kroos? Especially after they win PB.
I notice Bruno Fernandes lost possession 25 times yesterday! He will be punished for that under this mythical new matrix coming soon, so probably best get instant selling everyone yea? He will be £2.50 by Christmas 😄.

@Ericali said in how much do you stand to lose ?:

Still 106% up on my investment.

Been treading water recently but reinvesting my dividends & feel I'm in a great position for when this oil tanker gets turned around.

Haha good to see you still on the forum Eric me old mate!

I think you deserve a trophy for still being so much in profit too ;)

@Ole-ole said in Back once again like a renegade master!:

@ScouseSte Interesting dilemna haha, it could go either way, or the dreaded nil nil even! no good for either team or either port! I currently hold Rashford, Pogba and Greengoat in this game, I sold Mane last week so good chance he could bag a hat trick!

That would be lovely, here's hoping mate ;)

@Karl said in National press:

@ScouseSte Welcome back to the madness 😊

Ta mate, its good to be back and get some perspective on where we are.

I had the odd look on Twitter over the last few months but its a cesspool! At least this forum only has the odd troll or two.

That Guardian article has actually peaked my interest in FI again, how bout that? haha!

Good to see the forum still has a resident troll anyway. There's always one

Ahhh its good to be back :)

@Ole-ole hahaha! Up yours! haha!

(You could be right though mate!)

Having Bruno Fernandes as the biggest hold in my battered portfolio is a sore point though. I'm basically hoping to lose a shit-load more value on him today! If he rises, it likely means we've lost.

Not healthy this ha!

@Doddy said in Back once again like a renegade master!:

@ScouseSte thought you’d be on the discord site mate

I've popped on once or twice mate but it's too muddy for me. The numerous categories and the sheer fast pace the way the general chat moves from topic to topic is overwhelming. This is more my cuppa tea mate 😊. But if the Reds lose today I'll be disappearing for a few months again 😂😂😂😂

Seeing as how it's the mighty Reds vs the dirty mancs tomorrow, thought I'd get back on the forum and have some banter! It's been too long!

Ports gone to shit so may as well have a laugh!

Liverpool 2 United 1

Let's have it!

Well all this shit has brought me back from the dead Kenny Powers style!

What the FUCK is going on forum?!

Why are these Betfair crowd bothered about a football "stockmarket"??
FI has no bearing on horse racing, golf, cricket etc. Why they coming for us? ?

You have to play the hand youre dealt lads, and it seems Robertson is now taking a lot more corners than Trent - this is a massive factor.

Not only the points TAA is losing from cross/successful cross but his opportunity of "big chance created" and assists has subsequently diminished so far this season.

On the back of this evidence, I sold up my TAA.
I may buy back in but only if he becomes the dominant player on set-pieces again.